U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 12-31-2014, 10:59 AM
 
1,302 posts, read 827,246 times
Reputation: 2703

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
People own multiple firearms for a purpose, you can only really fire one, accurately,at a time after all.

-Collectors
-Hunters (you shoot a deer with something other than you shoot a bear with other than what you shoot a pigeon with, typically).
-Self defense (I carry my M&P9 Shield in the summer, M&P9FS in the winter. Clothing and purpose dictates.)


On to assault rifles...the rifles you can buy without NFA approval are not assault rifles. Assault rifles, by definition, are machineguns, as it were. Machineguns are highly regulated. What you can buy, are semi-auto rifles.

Why would one want a semi-auto rifle with a 30 round magazine?

I personally like them for sporting events, carbine courses, shooting at the range, and many I know hunt large "herds" of hogs with them. Also, it makes a GREAT! self-defense weapon in the home. The lightweight projectiles are not so prone to go through multiple walls and exit a structure completely, the 30 round capacity gives you adequate potential to deal with multiple home intruders (happens more than you think) even accounting for the fact that you may well not connect 100%. Just because you have 30 rounds, does not mean you shoot the home intruder 30 times. It means you CAN! Either someone is a threat to your life/limb/property(some states), or they aren't. The amount of ammunition in your weapon does not change that.
Thanks for the info, I can see a small # of people who are collectors keeping several weapons, but isn't it true that most of the older, more collectible, weapons (maybe not the best choice of words) use ammunition that isn't as readily available?

Hunters I can see having several weapons, but I don't know that I worry so much about hunting rifles due to the lack of reports of people going on shooting sprees with them.

I had no idea seasonality played a role in the weapon of choice... interesting. Again, I don't have an issue with people having guns so much as the lack of training or standards required for keeping them. Honestly, guns are as dangerous as cars, but at least with a car you need to legally be licensed and have insurance. No such requirements exist for handguns. I'd be curious to know how many on the 2A side would agree with either of those ideas.

Assault rifles - I've read that many can be modified to be turn into military style weapons. The type that can fire off several rounds in a matter of seconds, and have been used to kill dozens of people at a time. I'll be the first to say that the shooters were often mentally unstable people, but doesn't that lend support to the idea that their availability should be restricted? We don't allow just anyone to drive big rigs, heck, we even control access to certain pharmaceuticals; but I can go to a gun show near my house and buy an assault rifle with cash several times during the course of a year. That is just crazy.

I'd be worried about hitting one of my kids with an assault rifle if faced with multiple intruders.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-31-2014, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
1,106 posts, read 905,546 times
Reputation: 3067
I actually feel really sorry for people who feel like they need to be armed all of the time. It sounds like a stressful and miserable way to live. Your odds of being killed by a stranger are so slim--unless you are involved in illegal business or in a violent relationship I cannot see the point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-31-2014, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
7,249 posts, read 4,116,826 times
Reputation: 18132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augiec View Post
Thanks for the info, I can see a small # of people who are collectors keeping several weapons, but isn't it true that most of the older, more collectible, weapons (maybe not the best choice of words) use ammunition that isn't as readily available?
Actually, a surprisingly high percentage of them use modern ammunition. Which isn't so surprising when you realize just how old most "modern" gun designs are. Basic revolver design hasn't changed much since the late 1800s, and the 1911 pistol is named for the year in which it was first produced.

Quote:
Hunters I can see having several weapons, but I don't know that I worry so much about hunting rifles due to the lack of reports of people going on shooting sprees with them.
Oh, plenty of people have gone on shooting sprees with rifles and shotguns. The mass shooting we had here in Omaha a few years back was done with a rifle. The jerk who shot up a McDonalds in San Ysidro CA used a rifle, and the Colombine kids had shotguns in addition to handguns. and those are just the ones I can recite off the top of my head.

Shotguns in particular are terrifying weapons, and ideal for mass shootings. Their chief disadvantage is that, being long-barreled weapons, they are harder to conceal.

Quote:
I had no idea seasonality played a role in the weapon of choice... interesting. Again, I don't have an issue with people having guns so much as the lack of training or standards required for keeping them. Honestly, guns are as dangerous as cars, but at least with a car you need to legally be licensed and have insurance. No such requirements exist for handguns. I'd be curious to know how many on the 2A side would agree with either of those ideas.
With a car, you only need to be licensed and insured if you are going to be driving on the public roads. You don't need a license or insurance to own a car, and you can drive it without a license on your own property to your heart's content. So there's more of a parallel there than many people realize.

Car ownership and use is less regulated than many people believe, and gun ownership is more regulated than many people believe. (Felons can legally own cars, but not guns.)

Quote:
Assault rifles - I've read that many can be modified to be turn into military style weapons.
Illegally. No licensed gunsmith will sell you the parts to do so. And no licensed gunsmith will saw off the barrel of a shotgun, either, but that doesn't keep criminals from doing so.

There's not a lot we can do to insure criminals will not illegally modify their weapons however they see fit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-31-2014, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
7,249 posts, read 4,116,826 times
Reputation: 18132
Quote:
Originally Posted by charisb View Post
I actually feel really sorry for people who feel like they need to be armed all of the time. It sounds like a stressful and miserable way to live. Your odds of being killed by a stranger are so slim--unless you are involved in illegal business or in a violent relationship I cannot see the point.
That's why most legal gun owners don't carry - doing it right is a hassle they don't feel the need to take on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-31-2014, 11:19 AM
 
Location: southern kansas
8,427 posts, read 5,778,259 times
Reputation: 18724
Doesn't matter how proficient you are with firearms, or how much training you've had. If you put alcohol into the equation, it can all go out the window in a hurry. Alcohol and firearms do not mix well. That link is a good example.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-31-2014, 11:20 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,944 posts, read 2,813,879 times
Reputation: 2945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augiec View Post
Thanks for the info, I can see a small # of people who are collectors keeping several weapons, but isn't it true that most of the older, more collectible, weapons (maybe not the best choice of words) use ammunition that isn't as readily available? People collect modern weapons, as well. It's fun to shoot various things. Besides, even older weapons have readily available ammo so long as they aren't super obscure. You'd be surprised.

Hunters I can see having several weapons, but I don't know that I worry so much about hunting rifles due to the lack of reports of people going on shooting sprees with them. Worry about the people, not the weapon. Remember the kid who nutted up and killed several people with a knife and BMW, didn't even fire the firearms, as I recall, although I might be wrong on that point. Some Hollywood star's kid.

I had no idea seasonality played a role in the weapon of choice... interesting. Well, it's easier to conceal a fullsize handgun in the winter. Again, I don't have an issue with people having guns so much as the lack of training or standards required for keeping them. Honestly, guns are as dangerous as cars, but at least with a car you need to legally be licensed and have insurance. No such requirements exist for handguns. I'd be curious to know how many on the 2A side would agree with either of those ideas. Actually, cars are much more dangerous than firearms, both physically (much more kinetic energy, mass,etc.) and in actual fatality statistics.

Assault rifles - I've read that many can be modified to be turn into military style weapons. The type that can fire off several rounds in a matter of seconds, and have been used to kill dozens of people at a time. You heard wrong. Also, full-auto is over-rated regarding actual use. Even the military only uses it for "suppression", "area denial", "break contact" etc. read: to keep heads down. One of my friends is SWAT out East, and he brought his issue M16 to one of the courses I attended. He made a ton of noise, but he wasn't very effective with it. Semi-auto put the steel down much more effectively. I'll be the first to say that the shooters were often mentally unstable people, but doesn't that lend support to the idea that their availability should be restricted? We don't allow just anyone to drive big rigs, heck, we even control access to certain pharmaceuticals; but I can go to a gun show near my house and buy an assault rifle with cash several times during the course of a year. That is just crazy. Background checks, etc. However, a dealer can refuse sale for any reason. Really though, firearms are largely obtainable. The reverse argument is...how would you fix it? A psych eval by a psychologist for everyone? That would soak up a TON of money, and take so long that the 2A would be infringed BADLY, and it would be useless because a psych eval one day is going to be different than a month later.

I'd be worried about hitting one of my kids with an assault rifle if faced with multiple intruders.
To your last in blue, why? Your typical 9mm pistol is more likely to go through multiple walls than something like a 60gr TAP round from an M4.

Further, rifles are easier to aim than pistols.

Lastly, be aware of your target and WHAT IS BEYOND IT. Bullets go through things. It's what they do. Keep that and your surroundings in mind.

Here is me, controlling a rifle just fine. Note the lack of recoil and precision it allows (Pay no mind to the sloppy pistol reload...I learned better later that day! Also, make note of how bad the single-point sling sucked. Turned my rifle into a nut-seeking wrecking ball! I now run 2-point slings. This is why training matters---it shows you what really works and what doesn't!)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_KDvsZcPy4
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-31-2014, 11:23 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,944 posts, read 2,813,879 times
Reputation: 2945
Quote:
Originally Posted by catdad7x View Post
Doesn't matter how proficient you are with firearms, or how much training you've had. If you put alcohol into the equation, it can all go out the window in a hurry. Alcohol and firearms do not mix well. That link is a good example.
Yes indeed! I would make the round-about argument that a properly trained individual leaves the firearm alone/at home/away from them while drinking, though, and never ONCE while drunk was I tempted to do stupid stuff like that. This guy had issues sober, exacerbated while drunk, is my bet.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-31-2014, 11:27 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,944 posts, read 2,813,879 times
Reputation: 2945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
Actually, a surprisingly high percentage of them use modern ammunition. Which isn't so surprising when you realize just how old most "modern" gun designs are. Basic revolver design hasn't changed much since the late 1800s, and the 1911 pistol is named for the year in which it was first produced.
Yep!


Oh, plenty of people have gone on shooting sprees with rifles and shotguns. The mass shooting we had here in Omaha a few years back was done with a rifle. The jerk who shot up a McDonalds in San Ysidro CA used a rifle, and the Colombine kids had shotguns in addition to handguns. and those are just the ones I can recite off the top of my head.

Shotguns in particular are terrifying weapons, and ideal for mass shootings. Their chief disadvantage is that, being long-barreled weapons, they are harder to conceal.
Yep, but shotguns aren't death-rays, and they take forever to reload compared to any other weapon but a muzzle-loader. They do produce ugly wounds, though.


With a car, you only need to be licensed and insured if you are going to be driving on the public roads. You don't need a license or insurance to own a car, and you can drive it without a license on your own property to your heart's content. So there's more of a parallel there than many people realize. Yep, and cars are just sitting there in the parkinglot to be stolen, when it comes down to it, if you're a whacko.

Car ownership and use is less regulated than many people believe, and gun ownership is more regulated than many people believe. (Felons can legally own cars, but not guns.)
True!


Illegally. No licensed gunsmith will sell you the parts to do so. And no licensed gunsmith will saw off the barrel of a shotgun, either, but that doesn't keep criminals from doing so. Yeah, but modifying a firearm to fire full-auto is not simple, nor is it easy. People think you file this, or weld that. No. Not hardly. More like you CNC machine a sear, dis-connector, etc. and get all of the geometry perfect, and the parts you need to copy are controlled, and currently selling for about $13-15,000 a set for an M16.

There's not a lot we can do to insure criminals will not illegally modify their weapons however they see fit.
To be honest, criminals are not the brightest with firearms most of the time, and their modifications often reduce reliability/effectiveness, if anything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-31-2014, 11:29 AM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,848,730 times
Reputation: 11419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
Not to make light of the horrible situation, but how is a 2 year old able to grab a loaded gun from a purse in a cart, and shoot themselves.

Ya it happened, but still.
The 2 year old didn't have a purse. Also, they didn't shoot themselves.

There was a tragedy but the tragedy after that will be how many gun haters will read your post, then repeat it until it becomes fact to them and people they talk to. Then we all wonder how people can be so stupid.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-31-2014, 11:32 AM
 
2,620 posts, read 2,514,307 times
Reputation: 7222
Thinning of the herd.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:30 AM.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top