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Old 01-08-2015, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,644 posts, read 4,908,308 times
Reputation: 4047

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
They are smoking it because it's awesome, end of story.
You got it. I only use a few times a year. Like McKenna recommended. It IS awesome. Great experience. I think it is one of the finer things in life when used conscientiously and responsibly, and I think people who think it's a tool of Satan are really sad and really missing out. Their loss. Leave us alone though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
Yes, people like... you. In post after post, you extol the virtues of your favorite drugs, beer and wine.
This whole post was outstanding. Very impressed with Unsettomati in this thread.

Recent story said there are around 2200 deaths from alcohol overdose (a drug overdose) per year in the US. Not from cirrhosis of the liver. Not from traffic accidents. Not from falling. Drug overdoses on alcohol.

How many overdose deaths from cannabis in all of its thousands of years of human usage? Pretty close to zero.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurabug View Post
Why can't people just live and let live?? If it's not affecting you (not liking it doesn't count) then leave 'em be! I don't care what my neighbor does in his own home. That's his own business. And it's not your responsibility to parent other people's children.
EXACTLY.

 
Old 01-08-2015, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Colorado
9,824 posts, read 6,301,009 times
Reputation: 17688
I used to smoke as a teen, and it was awesome. I tried once since it became legal here, my husband and I took a "couple's weekend," left our two sons at home with an adult friend to keep an eye on things, and stayed in a 420 friendly resort up in Morrison for the weekend. We did not attempt to drive anywhere, and felt no desire to do so, in fact it was quite a thing to talk ourselves up into leaving our lodgings and only then because of food, and on foot. The stuff I hit was far stronger than what I remember from over a decade ago, it made me sick. It did not give me the experience I was hoping to have. So I haven't tried again, there is no temptation to, I'm good. And the many smokers I know, don't have an issue with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottkuzminski View Post
Kids can get into liquor cabinets as well...I recall years ago as a kid in the 70's when we would sneak swigs of beer from half-empty glasses at adult parties, not to mention that teens often raid parents and grandparents meds from the medical cabinet.....yet no outcry about banning meds or liquor/beer.....

Responsibility for this is on the adults, as it is for meds, booze, cigarettes, and everything else..
Yes. The responsibility IS on the PARENTS. You could be a crackhead or a meth cooker and put your kids at major risk. You could smoke cigs in the house with them, or the car, regularly and give them respiratory problems. You could get drunk and hit your kids and/or spouse. A good parent won't do these things. My sons are teens now, and we have talked extensively about the real life reasons why it's not a great idea to smoke cigs, or pot, or drink alcohol. It does not matter what is "the norm" or in other words what other people do or don't choose. Your choice is yours and no one else gets to make it for you. I am ALL for personal freedom with regards to pot and I think it is far less harmful than booze. But! Does that mean it's this miracle drug with zero possible harms? No! There are consequences that can happen. I've done it, I know dozens of others who have done it, so I can speak realistically to my boys about the lack of motivation, in particular. Some users can function with a pot habit...but for many, it kills their ambition and drive. Just a fact. Does that mean we need a law to protect everyone from this? Heck no!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
It never ceases to amaze me how people can think heroin, alcohol, cocaine and meth are in any way related to marijuana. All you have to do is open your eyes to the devastation the first 4 cause, and how completely benign marijuana is (not even by comparison, benign in it's own right). It is the safest drug we have, including big Pharma's drugs (which kill and permanently maim 10's of thousands every single year, yet are as legal as can be).
Actually there is a connection. The connection is that when pot is illegal, you get it from a black market where sometimes you can also find other drugs. The people you associate with do those other drugs. You are being exposed to heavier stuff and opportunities to try it. That goes away when you buy from a shop where it's legal...
 
Old 01-08-2015, 11:26 AM
 
2,784 posts, read 2,575,554 times
Reputation: 3727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
Yes, people like... you. In post after post, you extol the virtues of your favorite drugs, beer and wine.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/37692839-post31.html
http://www.city-data.com/forum/37058481-post1.html
http://www.city-data.com/forum/37553807-post1.html

Guess what? Alcohol kills far, far more people each year in places where both alcohol and marijuana are legal.
Alcohol responsible for 1 in 7 deaths among CO adults



I understand the data. The facts. Or, as I like to call it, reality.

You, clearly, do not.

Classic!

Prohibitionist that drink lol..... oh the mystries of the human mind. Some people would argue 1+1=3 if it suited their agenda.

No one is drug free. The human body produces drugs (adrenaline and endorphins).
 
Old 01-08-2015, 11:35 AM
 
5,664 posts, read 2,514,041 times
Reputation: 5117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
Yes, people like... you. In post after post, you extol the virtues of your favorite drugs, beer and wine.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/37692839-post31.html
http://www.city-data.com/forum/37058481-post1.html
http://www.city-data.com/forum/37553807-post1.html

Something there Unsettomati
You go back and dig into what I have posted and put links and take it out of context.
Good work, Barny Fife


Guess what? Alcohol kills far, far more people each year in places where both alcohol and marijuana are legal.
Alcohol responsible for 1 in 7 deaths among CO adults

The way alcohol kills and Pot kills has similiar and non similiar ways.

Guess what? Marijuana-related deaths in Colorado in 2014 (when it was legal) were down over 2013 (when it was illegal).
Since marijuana legalization, highway fatalities in Colorado are at near-historic lows - The Washington Post

These time comparison of 1 year can not tell real effects

You are completely detached from reality. You pretend that any drug that is arbitrarily legal isn't really a drug. You ignore actual data and insist that X, Y and Z are or will be true, when the real-world evidence clearly shows that they are not.


Boy, you sure are full of some arrogance their


Look, I have no dog in this hunt. I don't smoke marijuana and have absolutely no interest in inhaling the byproducts, both gaseous and particulate, of burning organic matter, though I do enjoy beer, and a very occasional martini. The costs of legally prohibiting marijuana exceeds that of the costs of having it legal. That is the reason I support its legalization.

I understand the data. The facts. Or, as I like to call it, reality.

You, clearly, do not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Demon View Post
Touche' !!!! End of story. This person has no merit/platform to address the topic from WHATSOEVER. Fookin DRUNKS. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. They ingest one of the MOST ADDICTIVE substances to man...daily...and then talk about impairment in others and other idiotic diatribe?

'merica!! Where 1 in 10 is a full blown alkie...but at least they AREN'T ON DRUGS.
Are you calling me a drunk
And your way of conversing, Touche' End of Story is one of who is very insecure and cannot hold a back and forth conversation. Yells like a whiny brat that says I am not going to talk it about it anymore, you are shut off

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefragile View Post
Feeling defensive? I see you didn't bother to address the hypocrisy that was revealed in that poster's post.
Umm, some of us work here and have better priorities

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
You got it. I only use a few times a year. Like McKenna recommended. It IS awesome. Great experience. I think it is one of the finer things in life when used conscientiously and responsibly, and I think people who think it's a tool of Satan are really sad and really missing out. Their loss. Leave us alone though.
This whole post was outstanding. Very impressed with Unsettomati in this thread.

Recent story said there are around 2200 deaths from alcohol overdose (a drug overdose) per year in the US. Not from cirrhosis of the liver. Not from traffic accidents. Not from falling. Drug overdoses on alcohol.

See my link below to see what Pot does


How many overdose deaths from cannabis in all of its thousands of years of human usage? Pretty close to zero.
EXACTLY.
Wrong

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/....2012.12030373


It would be a mistake to ignore the concerns about potential side effects when marijuana is used for either medical or recreational purposes (15, 16). It is estimated that 9% of marijuana users will become dependent (17), and the number of addicted individuals will likely rise as more use it. Marijuana is the most widely abused illegal drug in the United States and in the world. At present, 61% of Americans ages 12 and older who meet diagnostic criteria for substance abuse or dependence for any drug other than alcohol do so because of their marijuana use (18, 19). Contrary to the statements of marijuana advocates, cessation of marijuana use has been shown to produce a physical withdrawal syndrome (20–23), with relapse after treatment as high as 71% (24). Serious side effects related to marijuana use include, among other things, greater marijuana dependence (25); more drugged driving with the potential for more traffic accidents (26); short-term memory deficits; decreased concentration, attention, and information processing (15); and aggravation of symptoms and course of schizophrenia (27–31), relapse of stable schizophrenia, and earlier onset of schizophrenia in vulnerable males. These side effects are more likely to occur with higher marijuana potency and earlier onset of marijuana use.


Prompted by the passage of California's Proposition 215, which established medical marijuana in 1996, the federal government asked the National Academy of Sciences' Institute of Medicine to study the uses of marijuana for therapeutic purposes. The Institute of Medicine concluded that there is therapeutic potential for some of the cannabinoids found in marijuana but that smoked marijuana is an unacceptable delivery system with harmful health effects. The Institute therefore recommended that clinical trials of cannabinoid drugs develop “rapid-onset, reliable, and safe delivery systems.” Moreover, the Institute stressed that clinical trials of smoked marijuana should be very limited, be short term, and be conducted under strict circumstances, such as being limited to patients who failed to benefit from approved medications (10). The conclusions and recommendations of the Institute of Medicine are a far cry from supporting the use of smoked marijuana in medicine, as many medical marijuana advocates suggest.





I am taking the time to respond to all of you who took this thread from Tod and ran off with it with your bitching.

Todd was merely concerned about our youth with the legalization of Pot.

Be mature, respectful, and have some dignity, and let him have that opinion.

It is a real concern for some.
You, who have postered here so rudely and full of such anger words cannot even describe
 
Old 01-08-2015, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 22,522,283 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
"At least 14 Colorado children ages 3 to 7 were sent to hospitals in the first half of 2014 for accidentally ingesting marijuana products, compared with eight in 2013 and four between 2008 and 2011, SAM said of state data."

Hm. Let's see...

In 2008, your kid gets into your stash. You take him/her to a hospital. You go to jail and your kid is taken from you. Or if you are moderately intelligent, you just don't bother taking the kid to the hospital so that none of that will happen. Either way, kid probably recovers with no major ill effects after a good long nap.

In 2014, your kid gets into your stash, you are a conscientious parent in a state where it's legal (although maybe not that bright if you didn't have your stuff in a secure spot but whatever.) You take the kid to the hospital where they recover under observation. Child recovers with no major ill effects after a good long nap. Worst problem: hefty hospital bill.

Hey Todd...guess what...I live in CO. I don't like or use pot, personally. But the sky isn't falling here, despite the claims of plenty of scare tactics reporting sources out there. I could find 20 pages on the other side of the argument if I wanted to, but you've got the same access to Google that I do. Simply put, it doesn't matter. Nothing terrible is going on here as a result of our "legal" (not really) weed. (I say not really because we don't have the power to truly make it legal...the state just isn't enforcing the federal law.)

I absolutely expect that more parents will try and get help to get their teens free of pot, now, because loosening the legal stigma means that you can't just assume the law is gonna lock you up and take your kid, because little Joe Bob Junior has become a stoner. When I was a teenager, in Northern VA, pot was absolutely everywhere. Illegal as heck and everywhere. It would have been easier (and cheaper) for me to get then and there, than here and now.
Yeah, I wonder how it compares to teens who got into their parents' booze stash and got sick

I don't use it and don't care to, but I my world here in Denver hasn't changed. The only people I know who use it occasionally did the same prior to legalization.

"Moral fiber" lol! I think that's what angry old white people need to take so they won't be so uptight when society moves beyond their narrow vision of how people should act
 
Old 01-08-2015, 11:39 AM
 
12,089 posts, read 5,616,438 times
Reputation: 13605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atalanta View Post
Are you calling me a drunk
And your way of conversing, Touche' End of Story is one of who is very insecure and cannot hold a back and forth conversation. Yells like a whiny brat that says I am not going to talk it about it anymore, you are shut off



Umm, some of us work here and have better priorities



.





And yet, you still haven't addressed the hypocrisy. Do you worry about the legalization of alcohol on the children? Do you realize that you drink alcohol?
 
Old 01-08-2015, 11:41 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 9,654,796 times
Reputation: 7449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I used to smoke as a teen, and it was awesome. I tried once since it became legal here, my husband and I took a "couple's weekend," left our two sons at home with an adult friend to keep an eye on things, and stayed in a 420 friendly resort up in Morrison for the weekend. We did not attempt to drive anywhere, and felt no desire to do so, in fact it was quite a thing to talk ourselves up into leaving our lodgings and only then because of food, and on foot. The stuff I hit was far stronger than what I remember from over a decade ago, it made me sick. It did not give me the experience I was hoping to have. So I haven't tried again, there is no temptation to, I'm good. And the many smokers I know, don't have an issue with that.



Yes. The responsibility IS on the PARENTS. You could be a crackhead or a meth cooker and put your kids at major risk. You could smoke cigs in the house with them, or the car, regularly and give them respiratory problems. You could get drunk and hit your kids and/or spouse. A good parent won't do these things. My sons are teens now, and we have talked extensively about the real life reasons why it's not a great idea to smoke cigs, or pot, or drink alcohol. It does not matter what is "the norm" or in other words what other people do or don't choose. Your choice is yours and no one else gets to make it for you. I am ALL for personal freedom with regards to pot and I think it is far less harmful than booze. But! Does that mean it's this miracle drug with zero possible harms? No! There are consequences that can happen. I've done it, I know dozens of others who have done it, so I can speak realistically to my boys about the lack of motivation, in particular. Some users can function with a pot habit...but for many, it kills their ambition and drive. Just a fact. Does that mean we need a law to protect everyone from this? Heck no!



Actually there is a connection. The connection is that when pot is illegal, you get it from a black market where sometimes you can also find other drugs. The people you associate with do those other drugs. You are being exposed to heavier stuff and opportunities to try it. That goes away when you buy from a shop where it's legal...

Good post Sonic! And to your last statement regarding exposure to other illegal substances due to cannabis being illegal and eliminating or minimizing exposure to other harder, more dangerous illegal substances by legalizing cannabis is spot on! Unfortunately, prohibitionists can't seem to wrap their minds around that!
 
Old 01-08-2015, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,644 posts, read 4,908,308 times
Reputation: 4047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atalanta View Post
Wrong
Not seeing any deaths, let alone 2200 deaths due to drug overdoses a year (as alcohol causes). Do you take the drug alcohol responsibly? You do? Would you then concede that other people can take the drug cannabis responsibly?

Do you concede that alcohol kills in a variety of ways? Do you concede that alcohol ABUSE can lead to all sorts of health and mental issues as well as withdrawal? Do you ever "make so many out there and off the wall reasons and excuses that it is just Okey dokey to use and it's not a problem" regarding alcohol? Oh you don't need to, because it's legal and tacitly endorsed by the DEA despite its terrible consequences.

There are differences.
  • Alcohol, in my opinion, is a nasty, vile drug nearly devoid of benefits
  • Alcohol, factually, kills, and is legal
  • Cannabis, in my opinion, can be eye-opening and inspirational and thought-provoking when used correctly
  • Cannabis, factually, does not kill, and is illegal
You seem to have these backwards, and Barney Fife errrr Unsettomati called you on that.

Leave us alone.
 
Old 01-08-2015, 12:44 PM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,039,749 times
Reputation: 3138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atalanta View Post
Are you calling me a drunk
And your way of conversing, Touche' End of Story is one of who is very insecure and cannot hold a back and forth conversation. Yells like a whiny brat that says I am not going to talk it about it anymore, you are shut off



Umm, some of us work here and have better priorities



Wrong

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/....2012.12030373


It would be a mistake to ignore the concerns about potential side effects when marijuana is used for either medical or recreational purposes (15, 16). It is estimated that 9% of marijuana users will become dependent (17), and the number of addicted individuals will likely rise as more use it. Marijuana is the most widely abused illegal drug in the United States and in the world. At present, 61% of Americans ages 12 and older who meet diagnostic criteria for substance abuse or dependence for any drug other than alcohol do so because of their marijuana use (18, 19). Contrary to the statements of marijuana advocates, cessation of marijuana use has been shown to produce a physical withdrawal syndrome (20–23), with relapse after treatment as high as 71% (24). Serious side effects related to marijuana use include, among other things, greater marijuana dependence (25); more drugged driving with the potential for more traffic accidents (26); short-term memory deficits; decreased concentration, attention, and information processing (15); and aggravation of symptoms and course of schizophrenia (27–31), relapse of stable schizophrenia, and earlier onset of schizophrenia in vulnerable males. These side effects are more likely to occur with higher marijuana potency and earlier onset of marijuana use.


Prompted by the passage of California's Proposition 215, which established medical marijuana in 1996, the federal government asked the National Academy of Sciences' Institute of Medicine to study the uses of marijuana for therapeutic purposes. The Institute of Medicine concluded that there is therapeutic potential for some of the cannabinoids found in marijuana but that smoked marijuana is an unacceptable delivery system with harmful health effects. The Institute therefore recommended that clinical trials of cannabinoid drugs develop “rapid-onset, reliable, and safe delivery systems.” Moreover, the Institute stressed that clinical trials of smoked marijuana should be very limited, be short term, and be conducted under strict circumstances, such as being limited to patients who failed to benefit from approved medications (10). The conclusions and recommendations of the Institute of Medicine are a far cry from supporting the use of smoked marijuana in medicine, as many medical marijuana advocates suggest.





I am taking the time to respond to all of you who took this thread from Tod and ran off with it with your bitching.

Todd was merely concerned about our youth with the legalization of Pot.

Be mature, respectful, and have some dignity, and let him have that opinion.

It is a real concern for some.
You, who have postered here so rudely and full of such anger words cannot even describe
At least have the stones to admit your a hypocritical loony. You partake in alcohol, a objectively FAR worse DRUG then marijuana, yet have the gall to attack marijuana as if it's some horrible thing that will tear apart the nation if legalized. It's a joke.

You can even see it in your quoted passage above. The worst people can come up with about marijuana is that a small percentage of users will become dependent (who cares, people get dependent on video games too should be ban them?), and if you have schizophrenia it can mess with you (the vast majority of people don't have it, so that doesn't matter either). Also that there can be some mild withdrawal symptoms in heavy, long term users (which aren't even close to what happens when heavy users of booze/heroin/meth/etc try to stop). The traffic accidents one is already being disproven in CO, and studies have clearly shown marijuana is not even in the same realm as alcohol in terms of motor function impairment and more importantly, in judgment (and the negative effects it does have on motor function take place in the first hour after smoking). People who are stoned are acutely aware of the danger of driving and tend to be more paranoid about crashing/speeding, whereas drunk drivers are the opposite.

As for short term memory impairment, that's temporary, and the other stuff, well yeah no crap, we all know that getting super stoned is not the same as being sober. There are different levels of highness, after all.

I'd be willing to bet decent money that the relapse rate is so high because people realize after being sober for awhile that smoking doesn't make that huge a difference. I've heard that sentiment expressed by multiple people who stopped smoking because they thought it was having a big impact on their life. Turns out it was just them that was the issue, not the weed.

We won't even get into all the health benefits of smoking that we've uncovered so far.
 
Old 01-08-2015, 12:49 PM
 
17,341 posts, read 14,867,210 times
Reputation: 32968
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurabug;37934736[B
]Honestly, when I was a teen, it was easier to get illegal marijuana than it was to find someone who was 21 to go buy you alcohol[/b]. I knew 5 people in my town with a 16k population that sold pot - there were probably tons more that I didn't even know. And I live in Ohio, so no where near the states who have legalized it for recreational use. I've also seen drug dealers (not the friendly fun-raising kind who just sell some pot to their college buddies) push harder drugs like heroin on people buying pot because if he can get you doing that harder stuff, you'll spend more money.

Why can't people just live and let live?? If it's not affecting you (not liking it doesn't count) then leave 'em be! I don't care what my neighbor does in his own home. That's his own business. And it's not your responsibility to parent other people's children. I know plenty of people with kids who smoke. In fact, one of them is a very well-respected preacher who does tons of charity in the community! His son is 9 and is one of the most well-behaved, well-mannered children I've ever met.
^^THIS. We used to go to the arcade and ask around until we found someone (another teen) who had some for sale, it never took long (if school was out, otherwise we could ask around at school). This is why I don't get the "what about the kids" argument, it's easier for kids to find than adults when it's illegal, these new laws make it easier for adults who want to partake, not kids. Legal it costs way more than on the street too, so I certainly can't see kids trying to get medical cards or fake ID to buy from legal dispensaries. Why would they, so they can pay $500 for something they can get now for half that?

If I had kids, I would be happy knowing I lived in a state where their futures wouldn't be jeopardized just for being caught with a joint.
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