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Old 01-12-2015, 11:06 AM
 
8,052 posts, read 3,793,677 times
Reputation: 10476

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguydownsouth View Post
You genius this IS FOR the working man. Why do so many fight against something that will benefit them, yet be complacent about spending tax revenue on something that doesn't benefit them at all!
I guess you have a reading comprehension deficit as you clearly are missing my point, and making assumptions to boot.

For starters, most working men (i.e. blue collar workers) can afford Community College as the rates are very low compared with many other institutions of higher learning. So don't think for a minute this is for people in our society that are producers. Instead it is for those who are already leaches on society who typically don't work, have marketable skills, or the drive/ambition to succeed.

Second, and this may be a foreign concept to you, but many people who are against "things that will help them", don't want to be given those things, they want to earn it!
Sure everyone would love to win the lottery, but by and large, they want to earn their way, not be given a handout from the government. This also applies to average people being against the estate tax (i.e. Death Tax), even though they will likely never be directly effected by it.
You know why?
Because we are Americans, part of a Constitutional Republic that has become the greatest country on earth based on capitalism. We are not a bunch of socialist from Europe who expect to be coddled from the cradle to the grave. That might be ok for some slugs, but it is not the American way. We were given this great country by geniuses of their time, our Founding Fathers. They risked and sacrificed much to pass it on to us, but now days a bunch of whining Mommas boys want to be wet nursed their entire lives.

Obama & Co want to help the same type of people he was helping as a "community organizer" (i.e. rabble rouser). Funny how his buddy and top race relations consultant Sharpton had the same title. Obama is more polished than Sharpton, but don't think for a minute they are not of the same mind when it comes to helping their people. As Holder put it, "my people", meaning black people. Oh sure, this program can benefit other races, but don't think for a minute helping minorities is not at the forefront of their thinking. Why else do you think Holder is on a tear to try and change the criminal justice system, to grant amnesty for "certain types of offenders which disproportionately affect people of black/brown skin color" ?
He also wants to erase previous convictions from peoples records so they can get a job for the same people, "his people". Or maybe you have not heard him make such racists comments?
Can you imagine if a white AG were to address a group of white activists and refer to them as my people?
The (D's) and the liberal media would demand his resignation, yet Holder is free to be the most racist AG in my lifetime, and nary a peep is heard from the leftists.

I can feel myself going on a rant here.

The bottom line is that many people of all races have come from poverty and made something of themselves without handouts. Furthermore not everyone is cut out to go to college because they do not have the skills/ability/time management, etc. to succeed. Saying free school for all will result in incredible amounts of waste because there is no incentive (i.e. skin in the game) to push/motivate the slugs.
Personally I think a program to go to trade schools that must be paid back upon securing a job is more worthwhile. Many of the same targeted group of people would actually be able to get a job in blue collar professions like plumbers, teamsters, electricians, etc. and make a decent living as well. Going to college for an AA degree for a white collar job is unrealistic for many of the targeted people who a free CC education is being promoted for.

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Old 01-12-2015, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,869 posts, read 13,729,340 times
Reputation: 8987
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
False argument. There are plenty of ways to acquire financial assistance to get a degree these days. It's up to the individual to figure that out.

The issue here is in turning a 2 year degree into an entitlement.
Many European nations will pay for tuition all the way through to the doctoral level. Education hasn't been devalued because of it. They've been doing this for years with excellent results.

What is it? People fear that if this country raises their educational average they'll become more like Europe? Double bonus if you ask me.
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
25,535 posts, read 14,647,040 times
Reputation: 9261
I think it could be a good thing if done right. I don't think it will be an additional expense but a replacement savings. I think it very well could eliminate the need for student loans and grants for the first two years for university which is currently a financial drain on the economy both on the federal level paying out and then again with payback. Instead, a student can get an associates and transfer out and maybe only need to lend for two years if they don't have that saved up with student savings plans. That is the savings of several thousand per semester (in many cases two to three times the amount from community college to state university.)

I honestly don't get the problem with this. It isn't a free lunch as there are terms and conditions including degree progress and holding a mandatory 2.5 GPA. This means that you wont pay people to take meaningless humanities courses unless that is their major at the community college. The GPA requirement leaves out the slackers. It allows people to get training for jobs without worrying about laying out the costs or waiting for their company to pay or reimburse them. With the costs being smaller than federal student loans and grants, it can end up being a cost saver eliminating some spending issues. The only issue I can see is it is who is delivering the message rather than the issue based on the solutions it can solve.
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:16 AM
 
38,846 posts, read 15,621,260 times
Reputation: 17066
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguydownsouth View Post
I actually just tried to find a scholarship for my masters program and didn't qualify for any because Im white.....please show me this "plenty of ways to acquire financial assistance".....
If you base that conclusion on failing to get just one scholarship, maybe you shouldn't be trying for a masters.
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:19 AM
 
38,846 posts, read 15,621,260 times
Reputation: 17066
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
Many European nations will pay for tuition all the way through to the doctoral level. Education hasn't been devalued because of it. They've been doing this for years with excellent results.

What is it? People fear that if this country raises their educational average they'll become more like Europe? Double bonus if you ask me.
You completely neglect to mention (or are ignorant of it) that these slots are not open to every one. You take a test and how you do on said test determines if you can go to college or not. This is quite different than what is being discussed here.

(On a personal note, I think the USA should tighten up who can go to university like the Europeans, but I'd imagine that if that were tried, the liberal outcry would be deafening)
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Sylmar, a part of Los Angeles
3,501 posts, read 2,185,375 times
Reputation: 7087
I only read a couple of posts but I heard on the radio that the sole reason for free Community College is for headlines stating free Community College. Then Obama and the Democrats know that Republicans will kill it. Then they can say, look the Republicans killed free Community College.
Only trouble is the terreost attacks in France took free college off the front page, and now that no one was there at the rally in France again that dominates the news.
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:25 AM
 
7,846 posts, read 5,070,199 times
Reputation: 4025
This is a small step in the right direction.

All higher education should be tuition-free. Anything otherwise is cheating our future.

The Federal government is monetarily sovereign. It can and does fund any bill it wishes to at any time. You all are willing to give billions of dollars to invade other countries but don't want to spare the same to educate our youth. It's baffling to me.
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:26 AM
 
7,846 posts, read 5,070,199 times
Reputation: 4025
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
(On a personal note, I think the USA should tighten up who can go to university like the Europeans, but I'd imagine that if that were tried, the liberal outcry would be deafening)
Why the **** would you want less people to get an education?

I swear I just don't understand conservative logic....? Do you want a nation of idiots?
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:31 AM
 
Location: NYC
11,877 posts, read 7,809,621 times
Reputation: 12861
Most states already allow people on unemployment benefits to continue receive benefits if they are attending school or training and you get tax credits too.

Many low income families already receive tuition assistance if they attend in-state city/state funded schools, virtually free tuition for folks of low income.

A lot of folks already go to college virtually free, this announcement is just a publicity stunt.
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,869 posts, read 13,729,340 times
Reputation: 8987
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
I swear I just don't understand conservative logic....? Do you want a nation of idiots?
Universities are the "Ivory Towers" where students are indoctrinated. REAL Americans work in the trades and don't go for any of that intellectual crap. The only purpose for education is job training. Anything else is a waste of time and a waste of money. The only useful classes are for engine repair, welding, framing a house, or repairing oil field equipment.

Near as I can tell, that's how conservatives feel about education.
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