U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-12-2015, 11:39 AM
 
38,998 posts, read 15,675,621 times
Reputation: 17115

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
Universities are the "Ivory Towers" where students are indoctrinated. REAL Americans work in the trades and don't go for any of that intellectual crap. The only purpose for education is job training. Anything else is a waste of time and a waste of money. The only useful classes are for engine repair, welding, framing a house, or repairing oil field equipment. Near as I can tell, that's how conservatives feel about education.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Why the **** would you want less people to get an education?I swear I just don't understand conservative logic....? Do you want a nation of idiots?
LOL, This is exactly how the European and for that matter the Japanese education system works. The very system which you were praising and were advocating for the USA until you found out how it really works. They know that everyone isn't cut out for a college degree. So they stringently test and if you don't hit a certain score, it's off to trade school and apprenticeships. Oh yeah, and no free rides given to knuckleheads who can toss a ball.

Don't worry. We could never implement such a thing in the USA because people such as yourself, who are completely lost in the false narrative of liberal vs conservative, will blow all your gaskets with the false outrage as being demonstrated here. i.e. How can anyone deny someone an education..... nonsense. And there will be healthy doses of the R-word tossed in too.

Spare us the nonsense. It's about as deep as pee on sidewalk in the hot summer.

Last edited by WaldoKitty; 01-12-2015 at 11:49 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-12-2015, 11:52 AM
 
7,846 posts, read 5,077,198 times
Reputation: 4025
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
LOL, This is exactly how the European and for that matter the Japanese education system works. The very system which you were praising and were advocating for the USA until you found out how it really works. They know that everyone isn't cut out for a college degree. So they stringently test and if you don't hit a certain score, it's off to trade school and apprenticeships. Oh yeah, and no free rides given to knuckleheads who can toss a ball.

Don't worry. We could never implement such a thing in the USA because people such as yourself, who are completely lost in the false narrative of liberal vs conservative, will blow all your gaskets with the false outrage as being demonstrated here. i.e. How can anyone deny someone an education..... nonsense. And there will be healthy doses of the R-word tossed in too.

Spare us the nonsense. It's about as deep as pee on sidewalk in the hot summer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
Universities are the "Ivory Towers" where students are indoctrinated. REAL Americans work in the trades and don't go for any of that intellectual crap. The only purpose for education is job training. Anything else is a waste of time and a waste of money. The only useful classes are for engine repair, welding, framing a house, or repairing oil field equipment.

Near as I can tell, that's how conservatives feel about education.
NO NO NO!



This is where you conservatives just don't understand how regressive you are. The purpose of higher education is not to get a job.. the purpose of education is to advance the human race by developing critical thinking skills. Anyone can be "trained" to do a task.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2015, 11:52 AM
 
1,056 posts, read 884,574 times
Reputation: 2407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Why the **** would you want less people to get an education?

I swear I just don't understand conservative logic....? Do you want a nation of idiots?
He doesn't want fewer people to get an education. He just doesn't want 4 year colleges filled up by people who aren't smart enough to be there in the first place. People can get a valuable education in a trade or any number of other professions in non-four year degree schools.

In countries that pay for college, the amount of the population that can go to 4 year college is limited to those who are smart enough to graduate. Everybody else gets educated in a trade school or other training program. The population still gets an education, they just don't waste a college education on those who won't benefit from it.

In the USA we like to make everybody feel good by telling them that everyone can go to college if they want to and sadly the for-profit colleges will take anyone who's breathing, even if that person has no hope of ever being capable of working in a field that requires a college education.

I'm all for educating our population; I just wish we could allocate college resources only to those who have the aptitude to use them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2015, 11:57 AM
 
12,089 posts, read 5,686,804 times
Reputation: 13606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
NO NO NO!



This is where you conservatives just don't understand how regressive you are. The purpose of higher education is not to get a job.. the purpose of education is to advance the human race by developing critical thinking skills. Anyone can be "trained" to do a task.
True. However, I don't believe Scoop is a conservative.

Yet another example of the cons wanting to keep themselves & others stupid.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2015, 12:07 PM
 
8,060 posts, read 3,804,359 times
Reputation: 10487
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
Many European nations will pay for tuition all the way through to the doctoral level. Education hasn't been devalued because of it. They've been doing this for years with excellent results.

What is it? People fear that if this country raises their educational average they'll become more like Europe? Double bonus if you ask me.
Are you aware of the ugly secret out there that is not PC to utter?
That being that European school systems are not way ahead of us despite always hearing about how low our students score in math, science, etc.
If you were segregate certain races out of those figures, our scores would be on par with those other countries. That is not to say we can ignore the problems within the minority communities, but we also must not throw out the baby with the bath water.

For instance, this push for the federal government to take over educational standards. In most cases(not all) the class is taught to the lowest common denominator, so the brighter students are held back, vs. a majority being helped forward.
The trouble is when knee jerk bleeding hearts decide every person is important, so we must not leave them behind. Heck the whole no child left behind motto sounds great, but you cannot base life on those who cannot keep up. Sure you don't send them to the gulag, but neither can you hold others back because of them.
The European, and especially the Oriental system you praise does not do this. Instead kids are not given choices as much as segregated into different groups with the most intelligent being fast tracked for higher education. Others are designated for trades, labor, etc.
Would you be for that, or does their system just sound good until you discover the devil in the details?

Here in America we have tests and counselors who try to let kids know what they have aptitudes for, but we still leave those decisions up to the kids and their parents. Trouble is that when little Johnny and his parents are told he should go to mechanic school, no one wants to listen. It's because he is destine to be a doctor/lawyer in the parents and kids minds.

Don't get me wrong, I believe no kid should be told they have limitations as to what they should aspire to be. Some will underachieve at some point, but still have the potential to become successful. There are examples of this that we all have heard about.
However on a statistical basis, they are an anomaly, not the norm. We cannot therefore allow unlimited resources to be poured into people which will be a waste either. Some will need to fall behind so others can get ahead.

`
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2015, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Florida
4,103 posts, read 4,053,104 times
Reputation: 9996
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
I guess you have a reading comprehension deficit as you clearly are missing my point, and making assumptions to boot.

For starters, most working men (i.e. blue collar workers) can afford Community College as the rates are very low compared with many other institutions of higher learning. So don't think for a minute this is for people in our society that are producers. Instead it is for those who are already leaches on society who typically don't work, have marketable skills, or the drive/ambition to succeed.

Second, and this may be a foreign concept to you, but many people who are against "things that will help them", don't want to be given those things, they want to earn it!
Sure everyone would love to win the lottery, but by and large, they want to earn their way, not be given a handout from the government. This also applies to average people being against the estate tax (i.e. Death Tax), even though they will likely never be directly effected by it.
You know why?
Because we are Americans, part of a Constitutional Republic that has become the greatest country on earth based on capitalism. We are not a bunch of socialist from Europe who expect to be coddled from the cradle to the grave. That might be ok for some slugs, but it is not the American way. We were given this great country by geniuses of their time, our Founding Fathers. They risked and sacrificed much to pass it on to us, but now days a bunch of whining Mommas boys want to be wet nursed their entire lives.

Obama & Co want to help the same type of people he was helping as a "community organizer" (i.e. rabble rouser). Funny how his buddy and top race relations consultant Sharpton had the same title. Obama is more polished than Sharpton, but don't think for a minute they are not of the same mind when it comes to helping their people. As Holder put it, "my people", meaning black people. Oh sure, this program can benefit other races, but don't think for a minute helping minorities is not at the forefront of their thinking. Why else do you think Holder is on a tear to try and change the criminal justice system, to grant amnesty for "certain types of offenders which disproportionately affect people of black/brown skin color" ?
He also wants to erase previous convictions from peoples records so they can get a job for the same people, "his people". Or maybe you have not heard him make such racists comments?
Can you imagine if a white AG were to address a group of white activists and refer to them as my people?
The (D's) and the liberal media would demand his resignation, yet Holder is free to be the most racist AG in my lifetime, and nary a peep is heard from the leftists.

I can feel myself going on a rant here.

The bottom line is that many people of all races have come from poverty and made something of themselves without handouts. Furthermore not everyone is cut out to go to college because they do not have the skills/ability/time management, etc. to succeed. Saying free school for all will result in incredible amounts of waste because there is no incentive (i.e. skin in the game) to push/motivate the slugs.
Personally I think a program to go to trade schools that must be paid back upon securing a job is more worthwhile. Many of the same targeted group of people would actually be able to get a job in blue collar professions like plumbers, teamsters, electricians, etc. and make a decent living as well. Going to college for an AA degree for a white collar job is unrealistic for many of the targeted people who a free CC education is being promoted for.

`
You do realize don't you that most of those blue collar jobs are for large defense contractors or are tied to federal funds in some sort of way right......I love the guys that call into Rush or Hannity ranting about liberal ideologies, when they in actuality work for the DoD......
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2015, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,869 posts, read 13,749,537 times
Reputation: 8987
Do I need to go back and underline "conservatives" in the sentence, "Near as I can tell, that's how conservatives feel about education?"

That's the first time in the history of ever that anyone, anywhere has accused me of being conservative. I suppose I would feel insulted if I didn't have 7,500 posts clearing showing otherwise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2015, 12:17 PM
 
38,998 posts, read 15,675,621 times
Reputation: 17115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post

This is where you conservatives just don't understand how regressive you are. The purpose of higher education is not to get a job.. the purpose of education is to advance the human race by developing critical thinking skills. Anyone can be "trained" to do a task.
The subject of this topic is Obama's plan for free community college. This is Obama's stated reason in his remarks given in Tennessee last week:
".... have to ensure that we're educating and preparing our people for the new jobs of the 21st century. We've got to prepare our people with the skills they need to compete in this global economy.
So you "critical thinkers" don't even agree with Obama.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2015, 12:18 PM
 
38,998 posts, read 15,675,621 times
Reputation: 17115
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post

That's the first time in the history of ever that anyone, anywhere has accused me of being conservative. I suppose I would feel insulted if I didn't have 7,500 posts clearing showing otherwise.
When you weasel word disingenious nonsense you often get tripped up on your own words.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2015, 12:49 PM
 
Location: NYC
1,742 posts, read 1,880,680 times
Reputation: 3339
Great idea...and because it is, it will never pass. And Fox news will spin the **** out of this.

Megan WhateverHer****ingNameIs: "What kind of education is Obama pushing? Revisionist history nonsense?! Remember kids, Santa is white!"

Male correspondent: "That's right Megan, quite frankly, I'm tired of these hand outs Obama is giving people. It's an insult to the people of Tennessee. He's basically saying they're all stupid. My father didn't go to college and he turned out well!"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top