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Old 01-17-2015, 10:22 AM
 
45,336 posts, read 17,992,440 times
Reputation: 18978

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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-52 View Post
I don't care if the victim is black, white, purple or green there is still a legal definition of innocent and not guilty. He was found not guilty under the law not innocent. This is fact.
It's not fact and you don't understand how the law works.

And the US court system as well as the Supreme Ct. operates under the Presumption of Innocence principle. Hence he is innocent, UNTIL proven guilty. You can spin the words as much as you like but that is the way he is. GZ is innocent of the charges brought against him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffin_v._United_States
The presumption of innocence, sometimes referred to by the Latin expression Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat (the burden of proof is on he who declares, not on he who denies), is the principle that one is considered innocent until proven guilty.

 
Old 01-17-2015, 10:24 AM
 
9,536 posts, read 4,876,259 times
Reputation: 3878
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha_1976 View Post
No it applies to "only" who self-claim they are law abiding citizens and not who look like "thugs" Same way - people believe TM should not have done anything when he was stalked real bad but call 911 and follow what they had to say.

However, when GZ did call 911 and was told not to do anything and wait for cops to arrive in his truck he ignored that completely went ahead and killed someone but this is justified

If you think GZ was in his truck when dispatch said we don't need you to follow, you should go back 2 1/2 years and read upon the trial.
 
Old 01-17-2015, 10:35 AM
 
1,077 posts, read 686,222 times
Reputation: 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
It's not fact and you don't understand how the law works.

And the US court system as well as the Supreme Ct. operates under the Presumption of Innocence principle. Hence he is innocent, UNTIL proven guilty. You can spin the words as much as you like but that is the way he is. GZ is innocent of the charges brought against him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffin_v._United_States
The presumption of innocence, sometimes referred to by the Latin expression Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat (the burden of proof is on he who declares, not on he who denies), is the principle that one is considered innocent until proven guilty.
All offenders start off with a presumption of innocence.

An acquittal doesn't equal innocent of charges, just means the jurors didn't feel the prosecution met their standard of guilt.

Wikipedia isn't the best source since anyone can edit..

Quote:
Quote:

Definition


At the end of a criminal trial, a finding by a judge or jury that a defendant
is not guilty. An acquittal signifies that a prosecutor failed to prove his or
her case beyond a reasonable doubt, not that a defendant is innocent.
Thus, a person may be acquitted of a crime but found civilly liable in a civil
case regarding that same crime, e.g. O.J. Simpson, because civil cases have a
lower burden
of proof
than criminal cases.


Acquittal | Wex Legal Dictionary / Encyclopedia | LII / Legal Information Institute


So you can say he was found innocent till pigs fly but doesn't mean that's correct...
 
Old 01-17-2015, 10:35 AM
 
1,677 posts, read 2,060,404 times
Reputation: 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amythyst View Post
BBM

Doesn't mean that at all. It does mean the jurors didn't not think the Prosecutors met their burden of proof.


Not guilty in no way equals innocent..

snipped....
Not guilty is also a verdict in a criminal trial by a judge sitting without a jury or by a jury after finding that the prosecution has not proved the defendant guilty of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt or that it believes the accused person was insane at the time the crime was committed. The bar against double jeopardy under the U.S. Constitution prevents the defendant from being tried again for the crime charged.

Not Guilty Law & Legal Definition
Apparently, that only applies to OJ Simpson. I never heard a single rant that he was found not guilty therefore INNOCENT. But George Zimmerman is indeed innocent, according to some, no matter how much his behavior indicates otherwise.
 
Old 01-17-2015, 10:41 AM
 
45,336 posts, read 17,992,440 times
Reputation: 18978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scampii View Post
Provide one trial where a jury returned a verdict of "innocent."

Just one.....
A jury can't return a verdict of innocent because the accused is already innocent until they decide otherwise.
 
Old 01-17-2015, 10:42 AM
 
45,336 posts, read 17,992,440 times
Reputation: 18978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amythyst View Post
All offenders start off with a presumption of innocence.

An acquittal doesn't equal innocent of charges,
You contradict yourself.
 
Old 01-17-2015, 10:44 AM
 
45,336 posts, read 17,992,440 times
Reputation: 18978
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaNomus View Post
Apparently, that only applies to OJ Simpson. I never heard a single rant that he was found not guilty therefore INNOCENT....
Just like Zimmerman, OJ was innocent of the criminal charges brought against him. OJ was innocent. People ranting against OJ have no bearing on this just like those here ranting on and on about Zimmerman.
 
Old 01-17-2015, 10:46 AM
 
9,352 posts, read 4,293,292 times
Reputation: 11048
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha_1976 View Post
No it applies to "only" who self-claim they are law abiding citizens and not who look like "thugs" Same way - people believe TM should not have done anything when he was stalked real bad but call 911 and follow what they had to say. However, when GZ did call 911 and was told not to do anything and wait for cops to arrive in his truck he ignored that completely went ahead and killed someone but this is justified
Funny you should put it that way. Because if I were TM and called the police and they told me to stay put and wait for the police, I would not have listened to them under those conditions(assuming he was scared and running away). I would have kept running until I got home, than had the police meet me there.

Why TM chose to call his girlfriend instead of the police is a mystery to many people. More importantly, had he done so, when he and GZ encountered each other again, all he would have needed to say is "I called the police and they are on their way". It is highly unlikely it would have escalated with that type of an attitude on either one of their parts.
 
Old 01-17-2015, 10:46 AM
 
1,077 posts, read 686,222 times
Reputation: 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
You contradict yourself.

How so?

I gave you the legal definition of what an acquittal is and it's not innocent...
 
Old 01-17-2015, 10:48 AM
 
1,077 posts, read 686,222 times
Reputation: 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
Funny you should put it that way. Because if I were TM and called the police and they told me to stay put and wait for the police, I would not have listened to them under those conditions(assuming he was scared and running away). I would have kept running until I got home, than had the police meet me there.

Why TM chose to call his girlfriend instead of the police is a mystery to many people. More importantly, had he done so, when he and GZ encountered each other again, all he would have needed to say is "I called the police and they are on their way". It is highly unlikely it would have escalated with that type of an attitude on either one of their parts.

IIRC, they were already on the phone talking as he was walking back from 7eleven headed to his father's fiancé's home..so Trayvon didn't call his friend instead of the police.
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