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Old 01-20-2015, 05:33 PM
 
19,237 posts, read 11,149,019 times
Reputation: 8386

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
I find it disturbing that the HOA could be sued, even if Zimmerman did act negligently. If I am not mistaken they had rules about not being armed, and certainly did not promote vigilante justice. So how could they be held accountable
Answer: Only a bunch of money grubbing lawyers could find a way to hold the HOA responsible. The sad thing is that it probably will have a chilling effect on HOA's having neighborhood watches in the future, for fear of potential lawsuits.

`
If you hire someone to patrol you better know who you are hiring and did his dad agree to this hire? was it put up for all to see was he in a firm or bonded company?

 
Old 01-20-2015, 05:41 PM
 
38,193 posts, read 15,329,979 times
Reputation: 16848
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytrump View Post
The jury decision was decided and accepted- period-- the man walks-
DO I agree it was a correct decision- for self defense - NO-
NO = You didn't accept it. Case closed.
 
Old 01-20-2015, 06:02 PM
 
19,237 posts, read 11,149,019 times
Reputation: 8386
Correct I did not- but not doing anything about it- so we LIVE with it- but my reasons are not about color which you love to accuse people of.
 
Old 01-20-2015, 07:38 PM
 
981 posts, read 1,847,560 times
Reputation: 1387
Quote:
Originally Posted by poodlestix View Post
It seems like he will never get back on the straight and narrow.

George Zimmerman arrested for aggravated assault | Seminole County
He may be reckless but that can be treated as a separate issue from black thuggery. I am burned out on "if you're black and someone shot you, it must have been racist." Most people know it's not so simple at all.
 
Old 01-20-2015, 08:39 PM
 
104 posts, read 61,913 times
Reputation: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_north View Post
He may be reckless but that can be treated as a separate issue from black thuggery. I am burned out on "if you're black and someone shot you, it must have been racist." Most people know it's not so simple at all.
I don't think anyone here is suggesting it is this simple. GZ is thought to have been racially motivated because of some of his own words at the time of the killing and before. In addition Zimmerman allied himself with Frank Taaffe who certainly seemed to be a close friend of GZ. Taaffe had a history of associating with white-power groups. And now Taaffe is accusing GZ of having a racist motivation for killing Trayvon Martin. Surely you can understand why people who have listened to Taaffe and read his words since the shooting would believe GZ was racially motivated. Now you and others may disagree, but surely you can appreciate our views are highly plausible.
 
Old 01-20-2015, 11:19 PM
 
7,918 posts, read 3,733,620 times
Reputation: 10406
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokonutty View Post
Or, that if they have a Neighborhood Watch it will be trained well, coordinated with the police, scheduled and have regulations precluding an armed man with a police record, likely taking mind altering drugs for which he had a current prescription, deciding on his own while on a shopping excursion to stalk, confront and kill an innocent youth under the guise of Neighborhood Watch.
My point is that some neighborhood watches are just people loosely getting together to keep an eye on one another's property. I have been invited to be part of such watches, but declined(having nothing to do with this incident.
Even if it follows all the things you outlined, what is to stop one of the members going rouge and causing the HOA a huge lawsuit. Why would any HOA even take the chance if the HOA GZ was a part of is not charged with a crime, yet they have to fork over 1 million dollars?
 
Old 01-20-2015, 11:40 PM
 
7,918 posts, read 3,733,620 times
Reputation: 10406
Quote:
Originally Posted by UTHORNS96 View Post
Thanks for the dissertation on the entire thought process of the black community. Sure, the only reason a lot of us see things the way we do is because of Al Sharpton. Not because of silly things like history and personal experience

And yes. A lot of AA's do have a racial chip on their shoulder. But that chip is necessary in some ways. We need to keep in mind that if we want to succeed we have to make sure we work twice as hard because we already have so much going against us statistically speaking. It's not all about crying racism.

And to the assertion that there are no hard working, God fearing blacks that support TM based on race....I just don't know what to say to that.

If it matters, I'm a 20 something year old with a Literature degree that enjoys English Rennaisance Drama and listening to classical music, so I feel no need to "act black" as you say.
Great, but don't lump yourself in with the crowd who has the racial chip, and uses it as an excuse.

How long will history dictate justification of blacks to have a racial chip for those who think it necessary, and who decides when it is no longer needed
One could argue that considering how far blacks have come in our society since slavery and then segregation ended, todays blacks should consider themselves blessed to live in such a great time. This is especially true comparative to their ancestors who really had it rough. I'm of Irish decent and am thankful I live in a time where I am not treated like a dog compared to when my ancestors came over to America. As you may know, some Irish were brought over as slaves right along with blacks. Yet neither one of us ever had to suffer that inhuman treatment. I know of the past history, but I do not carry around a chip on my shoulder as a result.

I have black friends who were not given anything, including affirmative action help in education and/or jobs, and made it on their own. They didn't need a crutch or excuse to fail, they made the most of their opportunities and strong desire to persevere. That is the American culture that more of black America needs to assimilate into. They need to forget about the failed programs of the (D) party which in essence helps to hold them back. In many ways overall black culture was better off prior to the 1960's even if life in some respects was tougher.

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Old 01-20-2015, 11:51 PM
 
6,121 posts, read 3,324,438 times
Reputation: 13007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
My point is that some neighborhood watches are just people loosely getting together to keep an eye on one another's property. I have been invited to be part of such watches, but declined(having nothing to do with this incident.
Even if it follows all the things you outlined, what is to stop one of the members going rouge and causing the HOA a huge lawsuit. Why would any HOA even take the chance if the HOA GZ was a part of is not charged with a crime, yet they have to fork over 1 million dollars?
Your concerns are precisely what caused the HOA to settle with the Martin family. The HOA permitted, maybe even encouraged, the activities without making sure they were performed in accordance with any procedures accepted or directed by the police department or the national organization that oversees Neighborhood Watch programs and licenses the use of that name and its logo on signage and correspondence.

The HOA hung or permitted the hanging of Neighborhood watch materials on its premises and used the name in correspondence with residents even going so far as to tell people to contact Zimmerman with concerns. They, in effect, made the HOA part and parcel of Zimmerman's actions and it cost their insurance company over a million dollars.
 
Old 01-21-2015, 12:23 AM
 
38,193 posts, read 15,329,979 times
Reputation: 16848
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokonutty View Post
Your concerns are precisely what caused the HOA to settle with the Martin family. .....
Since the terms of the settlement are sealed, this is just a hypothesis. More than likely they settled because this is what their insurance agency advised them to do, to make it go away. It's pretty standard stuff and if it is the insurance company that paid, you can bet they played a large part in the decision.

My guess is the following happened, and it's nothing but numbers to them.
  • They figured out how much TM's life potentially would have been worth in $ and cents. (yes, they do this).
  • They calculated their liability should this go to court and the HOA loses.
  • Used a calculation to come up with an initial settlement amount.
  • This is what is offered to the family and it will always come with the condition that everybody keep their mouths short, this settles any present and ALL future claims by the family, and the settlement sealed from public view.
  • If accepted, they pay up, the lawyers take at least 1/3 and maybe as much as 1/2 as fees, anyone else owed money by the family is paid, then family gets rest.
If the insurance company's cap was $1M, then you can most likely bet the settlement amount was substantially less than this. Otherwise they cut a $1M check to the HOA and tell them good luck in court.
 
Old 01-21-2015, 03:22 AM
 
6,121 posts, read 3,324,438 times
Reputation: 13007
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Since the terms of the settlement are sealed, this is just a hypothesis. More than likely they settled because this is what their insurance agency advised them to do, to make it go away. It's pretty standard stuff and if it is the insurance company that paid, you can bet they played a large part in the decision.

My guess is the following happened, and it's nothing but numbers to them.
  • They figured out how much TM's life potentially would have been worth in $ and cents. (yes, they do this).
  • They calculated their liability should this go to court and the HOA loses.
  • Used a calculation to come up with an initial settlement amount.
  • This is what is offered to the family and it will always come with the condition that everybody keep their mouths short, this settles any present and ALL future claims by the family, and the settlement sealed from public view.
  • If accepted, they pay up, the lawyers take at least 1/3 and maybe as much as 1/2 as fees, anyone else owed money by the family is paid, then family gets rest.
If the insurance company's cap was $1M, then you can most likely bet the settlement amount was substantially less than this. Otherwise they cut a $1M check to the HOA and tell them good luck in court.
The articles from the Orlando Sentinel and other news sources all bet differently; all estimated the settlement as over a million.

This settlement would only preclude future claims by the family against the same defendant, the HOA - not Zimmerman himself or any other entity.
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