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I have never seen any evidence that TM had any legal right to use any force against GZ.
Besides a loaded gun being aimed at him, you mean? This isn't in dispute. Zimmerman admitting to following Martin, getting in a wrestling match with him, and shooting him in the heart. If he hit Martin in the shoulder and the police arrived in time to stop the killing, Zimmerman would have received the mandatory 20 years for his crime. No legal right to use force...that's pretty god*%$& disturbing.
You can choose to believe that the first time Martin knew of the gun was a few seconds before he was killed with it, and that Zimmerman only pulled it because he was afraid it was going to be used on him.
Or that Zimmerman's head was bashed into the sidewalk "11 or 12" times despite no subsequent bruises.
Or that SEVERAL people haven't stared down the barrel of Zimmerman's gun, both before and after this killing, while also being told that they would be killed by it.
Or that Zimmerman didn't lie to the police about where the incident took place.
Or that Zimmerman was ambushed (contrary to his own statement of NOT being ambushed).
Or that Zimmerman wasn't following Martin in any way.
Or that he and his wife didn't lie to a judge.
Or that Zimmerman didn't target black people.
Or that Zimmerman enjoys mentoring them.
Or that if Martin were able to answer the question, "Is that you crying for help in this tape?", he wouldn't clearly and definitely answer "Yes" as opposed to "that doesn't sound like me".
kill someone and get off with stand your ground. Kill someone from DUI and get off because you were intoxicated and would have never have hit them if sober.
You are not the first poster here to make such a statement, but if you show us the "evidence--facts" to which you refer, you will be the first.
I may do that if I have the time at some point. With as long a thread as this, it's easy to understand that you may have missed the relatively few posts I've scattered through the thread, but if you have seen either of two posts in particular, you'll know that I've made the point that, unlike in some television cop shows, real investigations don't usually involve any ah-hah moment where one single key piece of evidence makes a case. In the real world, investigation is a painstaking process of piecing together many bits of evidence and figuring out how they add up.
It would take quite a long post to go into all the evidence here and show how it all adds up. And, I'm sure that plenty of people would still refuse to believe what I could show must logically be regarded as the only plausible scenario, no matter how well I explained things.
Still, if I have the time, I might do it at some point in case a few of you might actually be open to that. IF I have time, so don't count on it.
The bottom line is that a forum like this doesn't lend itself well to the kind of detailed analysis and explanation it would take.
Anyone who is actually interested in facts, though, and in how the law views those facts, would be well advised to do quite a bit of reading about the case. Maybe even see if you can dig up a transcript of the trial, as well as information from online sources and the like. Then try to do a lot of reading and thinking, with an open mind.
Besides a loaded gun being aimed at him, you mean? This isn't in dispute. Zimmerman admitting to following Martin, getting in a wrestling match with him, and shooting him in the heart. If he hit Martin in the shoulder and the police arrived in time to stop the killing, Zimmerman would have received the mandatory 20 years for his crime. No legal right to use force...that's pretty god*%$& disturbing.
You can choose to believe that the first time Martin knew of the gun was a few seconds before he was killed with it, and that Zimmerman only pulled it because he was afraid it was going to be used on him.
Or that Zimmerman's head was bashed into the sidewalk "11 or 12" times despite no subsequent bruises.
Or that SEVERAL people haven't stared down the barrel of Zimmerman's gun, both before and after this killing, while also being told that they would be killed by it.
Or that Zimmerman didn't lie to the police about where the incident took place.
Or that Zimmerman was ambushed (contrary to his own statement of NOT being ambushed).
Or that Zimmerman wasn't following Martin in any way.
Or that he and his wife didn't lie to a judge.
Or that Zimmerman didn't target black people.
Or that Zimmerman enjoys mentoring them.
Or that if Martin were able to answer the question, "Is that you crying for help in this tape?", he wouldn't clearly and definitely answer "Yes" as opposed to "that doesn't sound like me".
Some of this is pure speculation on your part. Some of it isn't even accurate. Most of it has little value as evidence, to someone who knows the law and the legal system. Some of it wouldn't even by allowed by a judge as evidence in a court of law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TS808
Rational people do not believe these things.
Rational people who know the law, and how to conduct an investigation, know that most of what you've listed above has little or no value as real evidence.
....Your reverential idolization of this serial criminal is baffling.
LOL! My postings here are interesting enough for you to take the time to figure out how many I've made and to make a post about it. Your words say one thing, your actions say another. "Reverential Idolization" indeed. Do you want an autograph?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG5
Lol, irony at its finest, huh? Baffling is one way to put it, I have a few other terms/thoughts for it.
Ditto. Ding. You should take care which posts you hitch your wagon to. Why don't you try the topic instead? Beyond making posts to me, this is something that I haven't seen you do.
Last edited by WaldoKitty; 02-01-2015 at 04:37 AM..
Waldokitty, that wasn't his facebook page. I think we had that discussion a few weeks ago. There are at least a couple of websites that published fake (perhaps unknowingly, I have no idea) photos of different people and called them TM.
I've asked you for other proof of claims that you have made, such as his good grades, but you have never provided anything. I go with the website on this. This was no innocent child headed towards greatness as put forth by the incredible spin starting with the photo of him when he was 12.
Even O'Mara and West would agree that TM was running in the general direction of his house. The question is what happened during the several minutes between running away and the fight.
Rachel said TM told her he was by the house. If true, he turned back based on where the fight happened. If not true, he was hiding somewhere before approaching the house. Unless you think Z could catch up to a running TM.
Even O'Mara and West would agree that TM was running in the general direction of his house. The question is what happened during the several minutes between running away and the fight.
Rachel said TM told her he was by the house. If true, he turned back based on where the fight happened. If not true, he was hiding somewhere before approaching the house. Unless you think Z could catch up to a running TM.
BBM
Of course, GZ knew the community and it's short cuts better than TM.
When you take the totality of the evidence, the conflicting account of events from GZ, the forensic evidence, the DNA evidence, the bullet trajectory, etc., it doesn't back up GZ words, of course that is only my opinion and interpretation of what I read when discovery was released.
It truly doesn't matter unless the DOJ decides he did indeed violate TM's right to walk freely to his home. Or that GZ did have ill will or hate as he ventured out in vigilante mode to target a person he deemed suspicious and continually called a suspect in his written incident report. That also goes to his mentality believing he is a LEO.
Of course, GZ knew the community and it's short cuts better than TM.
When you take the totality of the evidence, the conflicting account of events from GZ, the forensic evidence, the DNA evidence, the bullet trajectory, etc., it doesn't back up GZ words, of course that is only my opinion and interpretation of what I read when discovery was released.
It truly doesn't matter unless the DOJ decides he did indeed violate TM's right to walk freely to his home. Or that GZ did have ill will or hate as he ventured out in vigilante mode to target a person he deemed suspicious and continually called a suspect in his written incident report. That also goes to his mentality believing he is a LEO.
We've disagreed on whether the totality of the evidence supports the state's burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Z did not act in self defense.
To take a short cut, Z would have to know where TM was heading.
The DOJ has been on this case for nearly 3 years. This wasn't a cold-case where some new DNA test or witnesses turn up. Maybe Holder's prayers will be answered and somebody like Taffe will provide what he needs to indict, or their tip line finally pays off. If Holder ever actually leaves office, an indictment of GZ would be a nice goodbye present.
Of course, GZ knew the community and it's short cuts better than TM.
It truly doesn't matter unless the DOJ decides he did indeed violate TM's right to walk freely to his home. .
it is my understanding that TM was visiting his father who was in a subdivision next to Twin Reserve or whatever. So if this is true, TM climbed over a 4/5 ft brick fence, then climbed over the gated fence to get out of the enclave to go to that convenience store then went back the same way. He did not walk around the gated brick fenced enclave on the sidewalk by the road but cut through the enclave if true.
If so, then DOJ will have a hard time saying that TM's right to walk freely to his home was impeded. If he were on the sidewalk walking around the enclave/community maybe DOJ could find it differently.
Not excusing killing another human being but if anyone is holding their breath for DOJ they need to understand that this was gated, locked, private property.
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