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Old 01-14-2015, 12:51 PM
 
741 posts, read 682,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
Japanese generals from WW2 have said that a mainland invasion of the west coast of the US was out of the question purely because of the number of citizens who are armed here. The US is not invade-able, hundreds of millions of people taking up arms against a common cause are not defeat-able.
Pre ICBM / Nuke / Airpower era.

That entire concept is meaningless now.
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Old 01-14-2015, 12:57 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
2,097 posts, read 1,885,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaba View Post
Pre ICBM / Nuke / Airpower era.

That entire concept is meaningless now.
Nah, not really. You still can not take over a country without boots on the ground.
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Old 01-14-2015, 12:57 PM
 
741 posts, read 682,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
For instance, I have an uncle who used to buy guns legally and relatively inexpensively. Then he would take the guns to the parking lot of the Las Vegas gun shows and sell them at a minor profit to the people waiting in line to get into the gun show. This shouldn't be legal.
It isn't legal. It's called "dealing in firearms without a license" and people are routinely prosecuted for it.

The boilerplate jury instruction looks abuot like this.

Quote:
The government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant engaged in a greater degree of activity than the occasional sale of a hobbyist or collector, and that the defendant devoted time, attention and labor to selling firearms as a trade or business with the intent of making profits through the repeated purchase and sale of firearms. See United States v. King, 735 F.3d 1098, 1106 (9th Cir.2013) (citing Instruction 8.53).
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Old 01-14-2015, 12:58 PM
 
741 posts, read 682,955 times
Reputation: 1356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnynrat View Post
Nah, not really. You still can not take over a country without boots on the ground.
You can render an armed populace into nothing more than a nuisance.

There were guns everywhere in Iraq, too. It didn't save Saddam.
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Old 01-14-2015, 01:03 PM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,039,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaba View Post
You can render an armed populace into nothing more than a nuisance.

There were guns everywhere in Iraq, too. It didn't save Saddam.
If a country started lobbing nukes at the US or throwing air strikes at us, said country wouldn't exist for very long.

Also keep in mind that the US military is sworn to uphold and defend the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic, not the government. If the government gets way out of line (like, trying to disarm all citizens) and orders the military to help them go against the constitution, they wouldn't do it. They are US citizens as well after all, their families are. They wouldn't attack them unless the people themselves were trying to tear apart the constitution and everything it stands for, which wouldn't be a unified effort anyway(it would be a certain portion of the populous).

Saddam didn't have literally hundreds of millions (let that number sink in, it's quite large) of armed and educated people fighting in his name. He was also fighting the US military, which is not exactly the enemy you want on your doorstep.
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Old 01-14-2015, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,869 posts, read 13,660,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaba View Post
It isn't legal. It's called "dealing in firearms without a license" and people are routinely prosecuted for it.

The boilerplate jury instruction looks abuot like this.
He wasn't selling the kind of numbers that would cause ATF to give him a sniff. But he'd sell to anyone who could fork over the cash in the parking lot. (And he was quite proud of that. "I'm giving people access to their 2nd amendment" and similar blather.)
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Old 01-14-2015, 01:10 PM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,039,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaba View Post
It isn't legal. It's called "dealing in firearms without a license" and people are routinely prosecuted for it.

The boilerplate jury instruction looks abuot like this.
Yeah I think people forget that there are over 20,000 gun laws on the books in the US. You used to be able to mail order a gun and buy one at the local hardware store like any other tool. Things have changed a lot. We need to properly enforce what is on the books, maybe add a few more well thought out ones.
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Old 01-14-2015, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,869 posts, read 13,660,039 times
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If states rigorously added to the NICS I'd be much happier. Some states have never added a single name to the database. This allows people to slip through the cracks.

And if private sales included a mandatory NICS check, that would improve things as well.



But the "we need to properly enforce what is on the books" crowd almost always digs in against NICS for some reason.
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Old 01-14-2015, 01:26 PM
 
741 posts, read 682,955 times
Reputation: 1356
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
He wasn't selling the kind of numbers that would cause ATF to give him a sniff. But he'd sell to anyone who could fork over the cash in the parking lot. (And he was quite proud of that. "I'm giving people access to their 2nd amendment" and similar blather.)
One gun is enough to get him in trouble if they can prove he bought it for resale.
You can google some of the cases they've prosecuted. They rarely have to do with actual 'gun traffickers' but regularly involve 'hobbyists' doing precisely what you talked about, right there.

You can bet he's on their radar. There is no gun show they do not surveil.
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Old 01-14-2015, 01:31 PM
 
38,353 posts, read 15,373,194 times
Reputation: 16921
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
.....
For instance, I have an uncle who used to buy guns legally and relatively inexpensively. Then he would take the guns to the parking lot of the Las Vegas gun shows and sell them at a minor profit to the people waiting in line to get into the gun show. This shouldn't be legal.
Why? Was a crime committed? Was someone harmed? Was there Violence?
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