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Old 01-14-2015, 08:10 AM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,062,067 times
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What a dumb-a*s.

If I was up in the apartment where the video of the cop being murdered was shot from, I could've killed both the terrorists SO easily. They didn't even have to cover the buildings becuase they knew no one had guns in their apartments. THAT is what's pathetic. Terrorists walking freely down city streets blowing away cops highlights a serious flaw in whatever country it happens in. If they tried to pull this stunt in almost any city in the US they'd be dead very very quickly.

Guns themselves aren't evil, how dumb do you have to be to not get that... In the right hands they are life saving (I don't consider evil doer's life, they are dead once they decide to take innocent life).
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:17 AM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,062,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaba View Post
I think a large part of the problem is that neither side wises to just acknowledge that the US is in an inescapable death spiral on the gun issue an leave it at that. It cannot be fixed. The gun problem here is a terminal case, caused by 240+ years of gun manufacturing with (essentially) zero ownership control...

Pro gun anarchy ideologues chant their stupid platitudes about 'freedom' and 'good guys with guns' without acknowledging the enormous aggravating factor unfettered firearms ownership presents to any civilization. Our gun death statistics aren't that way because of something OTHER than guns.

The anti gun rights side has essentially zero realistic concept about the inexorable reality that firearms are in our civilization and barring some incredibly fascist and authoritarian move to ban them (ie, house to house searches, etc), it ain't gunna change, ever.

The problem arises when someone proposes some kind of pragmatic solution, say, "Gee, I don't think it should be legal for someone to walk into a gun store, purchase an AR15, complete and pass a background check then 3 hours later, sell it to a guy in a McDonalds parking lot with a teardrop tattoo he just met off facebook for cash with NO background check... ya know, I think we should put a stop to something like that..." the half-retarded, drooling mantra chanters come out in full force with their predicable and weak book about "Hitler confiscating guns", et al.

The gun issue here is a symptom of 'American Exceptionalism' as far as how there are a few issues where we are exceptionally stupid and permit imbeciles to command the narrative.
And yet, violent crime has been steadily declining for decades in the US. Imagine that.

If you take away the inner city war zones the US has, the stats become even more enlightening. Most shootings happen in those areas, and most are committed w/ illegal handguns. Law abiding citizens aren't the issue, taking their guns away only makes them easy targets for the criminals who don't follow gun laws.
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:24 AM
 
12,219 posts, read 5,744,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
Terrorists walking freely down city streets blowing away cops highlights a serious flaw in whatever country it happens in. If they tried to pull this stunt in almost any city in the US they'd be dead very very quickly.
And yet, it does happen here. It just did. Did you forget?
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:29 AM
 
8,279 posts, read 3,864,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
And yet, violent crime has been steadily declining for decades in the US. Imagine that.

If you take away the inner city war zones the US has, the stats become even more enlightening. Most shootings happen in those areas, and most are committed w/ illegal handguns. Law abiding citizens aren't the issue, taking their guns away only makes them easy targets for the criminals who don't follow gun laws.
Well said.
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:34 AM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,062,067 times
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Originally Posted by thefragile View Post
And yet, it does happen here. It just did. Did you forget?
Ummm... we just had terrorists walking city streets with AK-47's in broad daylight killing people freely? Please enlighten me.

What you have to realize is that the media is majority anti-gun. They highlight successful shootings and don't cover the countless instances of a citizen defending himself or others with a gun.
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:52 AM
 
12,219 posts, read 5,744,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
Ummm... we just had terrorists walking city streets with AK-47's in broad daylight killing people freely? Please enlighten me.

What you have to realize is that the media is majority anti-gun. They highlight successful shootings and don't cover the countless instances of a citizen defending himself or others with a gun.
Did you notice what I quoted in your post? Did you forget that two cops were just killed here? It doesn't take a terrorist for it to happen. And it doesn't matter if citizens are armed or not, it happens. Your "argument" for keeping arms is the weakest argument ever.
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:56 AM
 
741 posts, read 691,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
And yet, violent crime has been steadily declining for decades in the US. Imagine that.

If you take away the inner city war zones the US has, the stats become even more enlightening. Most shootings happen in those areas, and most are committed w/ illegal handguns. Law abiding citizens aren't the issue, taking their guns away only makes them easy targets for the criminals who don't follow gun laws.
Violent crime has been declining since the peak of the crack epidemic and inner-cities are indeed the source of most of the statistical 'problems'.

Where your argument fails is the 'illegal handguns' fallacy, or the assertion that criminals only use 'stolen guns'.

They get guns from sites like this: ARMSLIST - Firearms Classifieds : just like anyone else does. While some guns used in crime are 'illegal' in some fashion, the vast majority are otherwise legal firearms that only become 'illegal' as a result of the criminal act and are 'legal' right up to that point.

You're peddling mythology.

Quote:
Ask a cop on the beat how criminals get guns and you're likely to hear this hard boiled response: "They steal them." But this street wisdom is wrong, according to one frustrated Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) agent who is tired of battling this popular misconception. An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners' homes and cars. "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said.
As far as 'taking guns away', I am definitely not advocating that and I oppose anyone who DOES advocate that. Matter of fact, I'm right there with you in pointing out anti gun double-talkers who know its politically dangerous to talk about gun confiscations so they just peck around the edges of it without coming out and saying it. What I am advocating is that the system of secret sales with no background checks comes to an end, completely and totally. If that means registration, then so be it. The gun anarchy narrative of two kindly old duck hunters being inconvenienced when selling their over and under shotguns ignores the much broader reality, of the blister-faced meth head selling his AK to someone he met on his local Facebook firearms trader because rent is due.
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Old 01-14-2015, 09:22 AM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 3,003,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
Guns themselves aren't evil, how dumb do you have to be to not get that... In the right hands they are life saving (I don't consider evil doer's life, they are dead once they decide to take innocent life).
The problem is how to get them into the right hands, and out of the wrong hands. Gun nuts want everyone to have guns, even violent terrorists and insane school shooters. And they justify that attitude by repeating endlessly that guns themselves aren't evil.
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Old 01-14-2015, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Long Island
8,589 posts, read 11,578,717 times
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Meanwhile, in Texas, a HS teenager was shot by a fellow classmate because of an argument at lunch. I found this out on another forum where a member is the victim's stepdad. More guns made available, sounds legit. FWIW, as a nation, I think we're fine where we are. Keep the guns away from here since it's not already here en masse. We'll take our chances with armed assailants just like those kids in Texas take their chances with volatile teenagers.
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Old 01-14-2015, 09:46 AM
 
2,181 posts, read 2,062,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefragile View Post
Did you notice what I quoted in your post? Did you forget that two cops were just killed here? It doesn't take a terrorist for it to happen. And it doesn't matter if citizens are armed or not, it happens. Your "argument" for keeping arms is the weakest argument ever.
Yeah they were executed, at night, in their patrol car, in a bad part of town, and the dude then fled the scene and ran away.

Not even close to the same thing as what happened in France, where terrorists were walking around a semi-residential area decked out in military garb, with machine guns, in broad daylight.

And it does matter if citizens are armed. I never said every single shooting can be stopped by citizens, I'm saying that if terrorists were to walk around a US city that hasn't been crippled by anti-2nd amendment politics, they wouldn't last very long. That is the benefit of having armed law abiding citizens, when seconds count police are minutes away, citizens are right there in the moment it happens.

The recent hostage situation in Australia is another example. A man had to die trying to take on the shooter with his bare hands, when if he or anyone else was armed in that cafe, they could've waited until the guy had his back to them and no one was on the other side of him(bullets can over penetrate after all) and then blown his head off.

If that person who filmed the terrorists killing the cop had a rifle and knew how to use it, instead of a camera, don't you think things would've ended differently? Yep. You cannot argue that guns wouldn't have been extremely useful in instances such as these.

And I don't need to argue for "keeping arms", the bill of rights takes care of that for me. Just like you don't have to argue for free speech.
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