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Old 01-16-2015, 12:58 PM
 
15,412 posts, read 8,719,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felinius View Post
Really? Did the last 5 years not teach us anything? Plenty of people have to take jobs that they can get, which means that folks lose out on benefits that should be universal in our country.
Should be? According to whom? The folks that want the govt to control every single aspect of our lives?

We're not talking about health benefits for mother and child. We're talking about PAID leave, to the tune of MONTHS.

Have you not seen the devastation to small businesses the last 5 years? Plenty of those businesses are at bare bones, barely squeaking by. Now they will be forced to DOUBLE PAY for a single position. Not by choice, but because the almighty government says it must be so.
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Old 01-16-2015, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
578 posts, read 1,069,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Should be? According to whom? The folks that want the govt to control every single aspect of our lives?.
Why is there an assumption that this is government controlling every aspect of our lives? There are plenty of other things that legitimately are (looking at the Repubs here), but requiring sick leave isn't controlling our lives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
We're not talking about health benefits for mother and child. We're talking about PAID leave, to the tune of MONTHS.
Not sure if you have experience with childbirth, but it is actually a mix of health benefits and leave. You don't go to work immediately after childbirth.

Quote:
Have you not seen the devastation to small businesses the last 5 years? Plenty of those businesses are at bare bones, barely squeaking by. Now they will be forced to DOUBLE PAY for a single position. Not by choice, but because the almighty government says it must be so
Just like small businesses have to pay taxes and SSI among other things.
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Old 01-16-2015, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Long Neck,De
4,793 posts, read 6,527,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
People abuse all sorts of things.

As has already been noted, no one should have to go to work sick because they fear they will be replaced if they stay home. That's just wrong.
Yes people do abuse all sorts of things. I do not think the government should be able to force employers to pay for those taking advantage. I certainly agree no one should lose their job because they are legitimately sick. But why should a small employer hanging on by their bootstraps be forced to pay them??
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Old 01-16-2015, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,644 posts, read 4,920,660 times
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There is an aspect to time away that you can't really deny no matter which side of the fence you're on. This may not apply at lower levels (associate, analyst) but applies at higher levels (one reason I miss being lower level).

If you're out for an extended time, whether it's FMLA, Disability, sick, surgery, vacation, motherly / fatherly leave, military, jury duty, sabbatical, car trouble, or whatever, and your boss (and boss's boss), direct reports, colleagues, business partners, clients, and / or customers, all find they get along okay / just fine / great without you, that probably isn't a wonderful impression for your career.

You probably want there to be some pain when you're gone. But if there's too much pain then A) you may be giving the impression you don't know how to delegate and manage the week prior to outages, and B) you may never be able to take a voluntary day off ever again (I know an engineer who went three years without a vacation day and without a night or weekend not being on call -- he was WAY TOO valuable).
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Old 01-16-2015, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,644 posts, read 4,920,660 times
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Also, might as well post this here (it's not completely off-topic): The Vacation Paradox

MYTH: Each employee is entitled to vacation time and is entitled to use that time in whatever way he or she sees fit.
REALITY: All vacation time is not created equal. For example, if you don’t “go away” or travel during vacation (or tell people you are doing so), your vacation doesn’t have the same value or weight to other people as if you do plan to travel – as if I should only experience my home / real life / hobbies while I’m working and couldn’t possibly enjoy it during a vacation when I don’t have to go into work every day. If you’re not traveling, there’s also an expectation that you’re more able to answer emails, check in, be available for consults and conference calls, etc. Childless and / or single employees also tend to experience a devaluation of their vacation time compared to those who have offspring and a spouse.


MYTH: Vacation is something to look forward to and an opportunity to unwind.
REALITY: Often even finding the right time to go on vacation is impossible and scheduled (tentative) time off has to be canceled or postponed. But beyond that is the concept of consistent workflow vs. huge bottlenecks of work. Before vacation we’re having to work to a severe self-imposed deadline and accomplish myriad hand-offs and inform sessions; after vacation we’re facing an avalanche of emails, meeting updates, new projects, tasks, and catch-up work. These bottlenecks of work can in some circumstances be so taxing that we would experience (or might perceive that we would experience) greater well-being by not taking the time off and avoiding them.


MYTH: Vacation recharges you mentally and lets you come back refreshed and ready to be productive and engaged.
REALITY: Vacation mentally prepares you... for more vacation. Not work. At the end of a vacation we’re addicted to vacation. If our vacation was relaxing, our minds have become acclimated to vacation, not to work. We haven’t become better prepared for work; we’ve become ill-prepared for it. If our vacation was hectic and involved travel headaches, contractors, errands, appointments, timetables, etc., our minds glom on to one thought: “I need a vacation from my vacation.” Instead the merry-go-round of work begins again.


MYTH: Vacation is important for creativity, perspective, “getting away,” refreshing our souls and inner muses, and preparing us to contribute our best to society and our careers.
REALITY: While vacationing, we question what we’re doing with the remnants of our lives; we get glimpses of who we were before work took over, and who we could be without it. We face the procession of time and our mortality. We realize how we conform, how we cower to authority, how we accept it all. We understand all the things we’ll never do, media we’ll never get around to consume, places we’ll never go, projects we’ll never start or complete. We feel the winding down of our mental and physical faculties. We start to consider leaving work behind, never returning to the endless bumper-car loop of politics and ambiguous projects and traffic and empty accomplishments and career pathing and stomachaches and lukewarm intellectual interest that consumes half of our waking lives and three-quarters of our effort and motivation.
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Old 01-16-2015, 02:50 PM
 
770 posts, read 568,145 times
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OK, Google did a study on why they are loosing female employees at a rapid rate. They came to the conclusion women were not coming back after Maternity leave.

Google now offers some insame amoun of PAID Maternity leave, because they WANT to. They want to keep their employees their .. .

So what is wrong with that again ? someone thinks someone else has to pick up the slack ? someone thinks a single mom should get a free month off too ?

I guess I don't understand, wouldn't an employee do 8 hrs of work in a 8 hr day ? what slack is their to pick up ?

If your doing 12 hrs work in a 8 hr day, that's a whole nother can of worms there.
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Old 01-16-2015, 02:52 PM
 
770 posts, read 568,145 times
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Here is a link to the article I was reffering to.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/te...anted=all&_r=0
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Old 01-16-2015, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,869 posts, read 13,691,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
(I know an engineer who went three years without a vacation day and without a night or weekend not being on call -- he was WAY TOO valuable).
If he was really that valuable, he would demand a ridiculously high salary in exchange for essentially being an indentured servant.

In reality, it's usually poor management practices (like not cross training) that place businesses in the precarious position where they are dependent on specific individuals.

Take this hypothetical scenario:

Employer: "You can't leave. The business would fail without you."

Employee: "Then you should compensate me fairly for my indispensable work."

Employer: "We cannot afford to pay you any more than we already do. And we cannot give you any vacation time, nor any time off."

Employee: "See ya. There are plenty of businesses which aren't run by idiots."


Who is at fault here?
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Old 01-16-2015, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,644 posts, read 4,920,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 191185 View Post
They came to the conclusion women were not coming back after Maternity leave.
I did a study of my own, sort of, mentioned it above. 8 weeks of paid maternity leave, insurance throughout the pregnancy and delivery and the first 10 weeks of life, then return to work for 2 weeks (2 week notice), and leave the workforce. Saw it follow that exact pattern a few dozen times. Staying longer than two weeks after maternity leave ended was in the minority.
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Old 01-16-2015, 03:15 PM
 
15,412 posts, read 8,719,357 times
Reputation: 13786
Quote:
Originally Posted by felinius View Post
Why is there an assumption that this is government controlling every aspect of our lives? There are plenty of other things that legitimately are (looking at the Repubs here), but requiring sick leave isn't controlling our lives.



Not sure if you have experience with childbirth, but it is actually a mix of health benefits and leave. You don't go to work immediately after childbirth.



Just like small businesses have to pay taxes and SSI among other things.
So you don't think the government forcing an employer to provide a perk is controlling that business?
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