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Old 01-16-2015, 07:59 AM
 
17,618 posts, read 12,203,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
What if the mother doesn't work at the same company - or doesn't work at all? My question is this - do new fathers get the same amount of paid time off as new mothers get?

My answer applys to your question. That's what a father can get regardless of where the mother works. The amount of time could be the same but most often isn't because it is offset by any paid leave, paid to the mother by any employer
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Old 01-16-2015, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
21,026 posts, read 15,233,614 times
Reputation: 11768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
I pick have the women pay for themselves. Don't have kids if you can't afford them. There's really no excuse these days.
So you are in favor of covered sick leave and maternity leave for working women?

'Cause, really, if they don't work, it is pretty unlikely that they will ever afford to have kids, right?

It's these sorts of arguments that make absolutely no sense to me.
People should wait until they can afford to have kids to have them, BUT, make it as hard as possible for them to work and support those children once they have them.

Women are never, ever going to start staying home en masse. That ship has sailed.
Don't want to support those kids? Make it easier for women to do so.

Simple common sense.
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Old 01-16-2015, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Long Neck,De
4,793 posts, read 6,504,876 times
Reputation: 4742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Paid sick leave is an incentive for workers to stay home when they're sick. The same people complaining about enforced paid sick leave are the same ones complaining when people show up at the workplace with a fever.
Why should an employer be forced to pay for that. Too many people would consider them paid vacation days. Calling in sick at the last minute could really cause problems where this person replaces someone.
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Old 01-16-2015, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
21,026 posts, read 15,233,614 times
Reputation: 11768
Quote:
Originally Posted by longnecker View Post
Why should an employer be forced to pay for that. Too many people would consider them paid vacation days. Calling in sick at the last minute could really cause problems where this person replaces someone.
And?

Are you of the mind that people should work when they are sick?

I guess you have never worked at a job where paying for sick days is common practice.

How do people settle for this sort of standard so willingly?
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Old 01-16-2015, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
6,965 posts, read 5,187,171 times
Reputation: 9400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
I am in favor of companies having PTO. Everyone is given the same amount of paid time off for sick leave, vacation time, doctor visits or however they wish to use the days in an hour bank after they have been working at the company for a given number of months just like a traditional company awards sick time or vacation time after so many weeks or months of new employment.

The hours are not separated into categories. More hours are accumulated as the employee continues to work for the company.

In other words, there are no sick days, no maternity leave, no vacation days. There are just hours anyone can take for whatever reason they need as long as the hours are accrued in their bank. Reasons to use the time whether it's to take time off for maternity leave or time off to attend a class. If you have the time you can take it, if not, you can't. It cuts down on arbitrary decision making as far as who gets time off for what.

I have worked for a couple of companies that used this PTO method and it worked very well. The time given has always been far more generous in these companies than those that have separated time out for the individual categories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Well, they're not connected because most European countries which offer generous maternity leave have birth rates lower than ours.

I like the idea of PTO. Period. Not sick leave, not vacation, not maternity leave, just PTO. Seems fair to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
What if both parents work for the same company? Do they both get 6 (or whatever) paid weeks off at company expense to be home with their new baby or adopted child?

This is why PTO is such a great option - along with short term disability (and I'm all for companies kicking in a portion or all of the cost of short term disability insurance). It's non discriminatory. You need chemo? PTO and short term disability. You have your gallbladder removed? PTO and possibly short term disability. You have rotater cuff surgery? PTO and short term disability. Have a baby? PTO and if you actually gave birth six weeks of short term disability. (I haven't yet figured out a way to have men actually experience pregnancy, childbirth and it's effects on the human body but when someone figures that out I guess they can qualify for short term disability as well!).
There is a major problem with the PTO vs. Sick time argument. People Come to Work Sick. You have to give a lot of PTO to employees to make it work, probably three weeks or more for newer employees. For the first five years or so at a company, you may get twelve days of PTO. People want to take time off around the holidays and maybe a week vacation, and all of a sudden they come in and spread the joy of their hacking cough, the flu, etc...

I remember wishing the guy behind me would go home, but he wasn't going to miss driving home for The week at thanksgiving to see his family. So, he came in and was miserable and the rest of us were exposed. I know that choosing to play hurt is his choice, and I don't mind that, but I do mind being exposed to him.
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Old 01-16-2015, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Long Neck,De
4,793 posts, read 6,504,876 times
Reputation: 4742
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
And?

Are you of the mind that people should work when they are sick?

I guess you have never worked at a job where paying for sick days is common practice.

How do people settle for this sort of standard so willingly?
No I do not think people should come to work sick. But I do not see why an employer should have to pay for someone not coming. I think it would be abused.
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Old 01-16-2015, 08:51 AM
 
17,618 posts, read 12,203,533 times
Reputation: 12856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks View Post
No. And the reason should be obvious. Having a baby is a choice. Getting injured or having surgery is not. Thus, taking the time off to have a baby should come out of whatever regular time off they have, and not be added as a bonus employees who aren't moms (and this usually includes dads in the US) don't get. Just before I had shoulder surgery, I HAD to take time off from work for it because I couldn't lift my arms without having shoulder dislocations. That's different than having a child. I love the PTO system. It's fair for everyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Yes. Absolutely. Pregnancy is a choice. You either chose to have a baby, or you chose to not take the necessary precautions to prevent having one.


Smoking, drinking, poor eating and lack of exercise are all choices and ones that lead to increased medical and short/long term disabilities. So these controllables should not be covered as well?
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Old 01-16-2015, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
13,438 posts, read 15,041,010 times
Reputation: 11924
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
So you are in favor of covered sick leave and maternity leave for working women?

'Cause, really, if they don't work, it is pretty unlikely that they will ever afford to have kids, right?

It's these sorts of arguments that make absolutely no sense to me.
People should wait until they can afford to have kids to have them, BUT, make it as hard as possible for them to work and support those children once they have them.

Women are never, ever going to start staying home en masse. That ship has sailed.
Don't want to support those kids? Make it easier for women to do so.

Simple common sense.
My mom worked, had kids. She banked up vacation/sick time before having my sister and me. I'm for women waiying to have children until they can support them, yes. It is not really that difficult, but as they say. Common sense isn't all that common.
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Old 01-16-2015, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
31,165 posts, read 57,288,199 times
Reputation: 52030
Quote:
Originally Posted by longnecker View Post
Why should an employer be forced to pay for that. Too many people would consider them paid vacation days. Calling in sick at the last minute could really cause problems where this person replaces someone.
This post makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, illness doesn't happen on a schedule. When else would you call in sick except at the last minute? Duh.

Secondly, managers with half a brain can usually figure out what to do on the fly when one of their workers is sick.

And thirdly, do you really want to be working with someone who has the flu, etc.? If one worker comes in to work when sick, chances are that illness will spread.

Nevermind that when you're sick, you're really not doing your job efficiently.

No one should have to fear losing their job if they are sick and cannot work.
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Old 01-16-2015, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
21,026 posts, read 15,233,614 times
Reputation: 11768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
My mom worked, had kids. She banked up vacation/sick time before having my sister and me. I'm for women waiying to have children until they can support them, yes. It is not really that difficult, but as they say. Common sense isn't all that common.
Thanks for providing an excellent example of why paid sick days and vacation time is good.

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