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Old 01-16-2015, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
13,437 posts, read 15,036,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
Same thing with unemployment right?
Yes.

I voted with my dollars on that. I do not participate in the unemployment system.
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Old 01-16-2015, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
40,879 posts, read 32,642,286 times
Reputation: 57005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
I was in a role for six years where I had to keep tabs on the goings-on of about 1100 employees (in a 40K employee company). I didn't need to know about vacation or sick days, but I did need to know of maternity leave, disability leave, FMLA, and terminations. Probably 3 out of 5 times what we would see is a woman would use the 8 weeks paid maternity leave (and the insurance), come back for the mandatory 2 weeks, and then that was it, they left the company (and presumably the workforce in general). Just something we observed time and time again. We were surprised when a new mother actually continued working.
I like the idea overall, but I do wonder how it would work.

The last time I used a "sick day" was in 2009 when I suffered a double-dislocated left index finger. Generally-speaking I can't just take a sick day on the spur of the moment because I want to (it's okay because I quite literally never get sick). At best I could work remotely. But spur of the moment is kind of the idea behind sick days.

Vacation days typically require a LOT of planning ahead. I have to make sure I won't be impacting any big projects I'm leading or working on, I have to ensure the days I want to take aren't certain days of the month (FBD through FBD+6 are out of the question most of the time), I have to coordinate my days off with colleagues so they can handle my work in my absence (and vice versa), and there's still always the possibility of having to cancel due to a fire drill, or business travel, or senior management visits, etc. Then the week leading up to vacation is a bit of a train-wreck, a sort of self-imposed deadline for all topics. And the day back to work after vacation is a monster. And vacation can still entail attending calls remotely and being available for emergencies (on the plus side I'm 40 years old and planning to retire at age 50).

I'm also not married and have no children so there's a little bit of a bias against my days. I have trouble getting my vacation taken seriously sometimes.

This is pretty typical at the Director level and up. Sick days are necessarily limited to only a few days (6 at my company) but are those days you can (if you're so able) take with no notice, while vacation days are more numerous (22 at my company) but are those days that require a month or more of notice and a lot planning and coordination.

So, is the idea with PTO that every day is supposed to become a 'spur-of-the-moment' day like a sick day, or that every day is supposed to become a 'long-term planning' day like a vacation day?
I've worked in a company that had PTO, as a manager.

You could use it in any way - either for vacations, or for sick days. You could use it in half day increments in fact. We had to plan and coordinate for vacations (we had to take one week minimum at a time so we had to have our staffing planned) and we could also plan for most surgeries but occasionally someone would take a PTO day if something urgent came up or if it wasn't an inconvenience to anyone else.
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Old 01-16-2015, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
40,879 posts, read 32,642,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
My answer applys to your question. That's what a father can get regardless of where the mother works. The amount of time could be the same but most often isn't because it is offset by any paid leave, paid to the mother by any employer
Sorry - not trying to be difficult but I'm confused. Does the father have the same access/right to ten full weeks of short term disability pay as the mother has? Are new mothers required to offset their paid leave if their husband's employer offers paid leave to their spouse?
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Old 01-16-2015, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
40,879 posts, read 32,642,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
There is a major problem with the PTO vs. Sick time argument. People Come to Work Sick. You have to give a lot of PTO to employees to make it work, probably three weeks or more for newer employees. For the first five years or so at a company, you may get twelve days of PTO. People want to take time off around the holidays and maybe a week vacation, and all of a sudden they come in and spread the joy of their hacking cough, the flu, etc...

I remember wishing the guy behind me would go home, but he wasn't going to miss driving home for The week at thanksgiving to see his family. So, he came in and was miserable and the rest of us were exposed. I know that choosing to play hurt is his choice, and I don't mind that, but I do mind being exposed to him.
I see your point but I also want to make something clear. Where I have worked under a PTO plan, the days given WERE generous, even for the first year, and we were told in no uncertain terms that these days were meant to cover both vacation AND sick days and that we should not ever come to work sick. Due to the coverage being combined, we had more PTO days - in other words we had the equivalent of two weeks paid vacation and a week of sick leave, the very first year (it went up in days from there). It was just lumped under the same heading.

If people made the mistake of using all three weeks for "sick days" and then they wanted vacation on top of it, that's THEIR miscalculation and misapplication of the policy.
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Old 01-16-2015, 10:30 AM
 
15,385 posts, read 8,679,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felinius View Post
Can't tell if sarcasm or a real reply (if a real reply, then what the?).

Maternity leave gives the woman time to bond with the baby that she either birthed or c-sectioned. Healing can take weeks depending on what happens during the birth, and it's not good for morale to force someone to come in or have someone who can't fully work.

I'm unsure why so many posters in this thread are against having children. Children become adults, replace the population and fuel the economy and help pay for those benefits like Social Security. No one's advocating for popping 19 kids.

For sick leave (non-maternity/paternity), it makes sense to require this across the board. Have a few sick days per year. We lose out of a LOT of money as a nation on employees who aren't at 100% to work, and on employees who spread infectious diseases to other workers who also either need to take leave or are also unable to work at 100%.

Yes, it may be abused. Humans abuse things, like getting soda from the fountain when you get a water cup. The overall positives of it very greatly outweigh the negatives.
Where do you think folks that don't want months of FORCED leave for having a baby are against having children? I'm personally against having a woman choose to have a baby when she doesn't have the time or money or work situation to take that time to bond with them.

There are jobs that offer paid maternity leave, and those that don't. Women are free to take either.
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Old 01-16-2015, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
20,947 posts, read 15,267,317 times
Reputation: 23722
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I see your point but I also want to make something clear. Where I have worked under a PTO plan, the days given WERE generous, even for the first year, and we were told in no uncertain terms that these days were meant to cover both vacation AND sick days and that we should not ever come to work sick. Due to the coverage being combined, we had more PTO days - in other words we had the equivalent of two weeks paid vacation and a week of sick leave, the very first year (it went up in days from there). It was just lumped under the same heading.

If people made the mistake of using all three weeks for "sick days" and then they wanted vacation on top of it, that's THEIR miscalculation and misapplication of the policy.
These combined buckets are often a "use it or lose it" setup, whereas with dedicated days for each purpose, at least a portion of unused vacation can be rolled over to the next year.
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Old 01-16-2015, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
21,026 posts, read 15,229,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longnecker View Post
No I do not think people should come to work sick. But I do not see why an employer should have to pay for someone not coming. I think it would be abused.
People abuse all sorts of things.
Should a supermarket not sell any product because people may shoplift?
No driving privileges for anyone because some people speed?

Employers pay for the occasional sick day because it is less expensive in the long run to have someone who knows the job come back on a regular basis than it is to keep training new people over and over.

There are few things that would suffer irreparably for being put off or not managed for one day.
And if those things are so critical and there is no trained coverage, then it is long past time to think about how well that enterprise is being managed.

People in this country have convinced themselves that work has to be attended to 24/7. We take the fewest vacation days when compared to other similar countries. Even when we get paid for them, we don't take them.

We can argue all day long about union abuses and so on, but, since the 80s, the pendulum has swung way to far in the other direction with "right to work" laws and other things that add to worker insecurity.
As has already been noted, no one should have to go to work sick because they fear they will be replaced if they stay home. That's just wrong.
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Old 01-16-2015, 10:50 AM
 
17,605 posts, read 12,197,156 times
Reputation: 12821
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Sorry - not trying to be difficult but I'm confused. Does the father have the same access/right to ten full weeks of short term disability pay as the mother has? Are new mothers required to offset their paid leave if their husband's employer offers paid leave to their spouse?
Fathers do not get the same access unless their spouse gets no paid leave. A mothers access is not reduced by the fathers coverage
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Old 01-16-2015, 10:51 AM
 
17,605 posts, read 12,197,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Yes.

I voted with my dollars on that. I do not participate in the unemployment system.

How do you get around that? I thought even self employed had to pay into said system
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Old 01-16-2015, 11:03 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
27,233 posts, read 15,024,326 times
Reputation: 20846
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
So you are in favor of covered sick leave and maternity leave for working women?

'Cause, really, if they don't work, it is pretty unlikely that they will ever afford to have kids, right?

It's these sorts of arguments that make absolutely no sense to me.
People should wait until they can afford to have kids to have them, BUT, make it as hard as possible for them to work and support those children once they have them.

Women are never, ever going to start staying home en masse. That ship has sailed.
Don't want to support those kids? Make it easier for women to do so.

Simple common sense.
Seems to be lacking a great deal in this thread. Honestly, I think women should just stop having kids OR - if you didn't participate in creating the next generation WHO PAYS FOR YOUR MEDICARE AND SOCIAL SECURITY - perhaps that can be factored in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
And?

Are you of the mind that people should work when they are sick?

I guess you have never worked at a job where paying for sick days is common practice.

How do people settle for this sort of standard so willingly?
The American people no longer have the will or the backbone to fight. And because Ann Rynd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
My mom worked, had kids. She banked up vacation/sick time before having my sister and me. I'm for women waiying to have children until they can support them, yes. It is not really that difficult, but as they say. Common sense isn't all that common.
Most jobs in the private sector do not 'bank' sick days. You get so many each year; it's not like a teacher that can end up with a year of paid leave because they saved them all up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Yup, not that hard. Unless you're in an unusual job like I am being self employed, if you can support a family apples to donuts you have a job that provides benefits. Also why it is good to wait until mid or late 20s. Not many 16 or 20 year olds have those kinds of jobs. Gaining employable skills with childcare duties is just that much harder. Of course there is also having an employed father in the mix as well.
It doesn't matter if you are 15 or 35 if your job doesn't provide for maternity leave. And having a father in the picture STILL doesn't relieve SOMEONE of the duty of caring for a newborn. They do require a great deal of care, yes?

Do you have kids?

I find it's usually the childless or people who don't work who want to make it difficult for working women to reproduce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by felinius View Post
Can't tell if sarcasm or a real reply (if a real reply, then what the?).

Maternity leave gives the woman time to bond with the baby that she either birthed or c-sectioned. Healing can take weeks depending on what happens during the birth, and it's not good for morale to force someone to come in or have someone who can't fully work.

I'm unsure why so many posters in this thread are against having children. Children become adults, replace the population and fuel the economy and help pay for those benefits like Social Security. No one's advocating for popping 19 kids.

For sick leave (non-maternity/paternity), it makes sense to require this across the board. Have a few sick days per year. We lose out of a LOT of money as a nation on employees who aren't at 100% to work, and on employees who spread infectious diseases to other workers who also either need to take leave or are also unable to work at 100%.

Yes, it may be abused. Humans abuse things, like getting soda from the fountain when you get a water cup. The overall positives of it very greatly outweigh the negatives.

People don't seem to comprehend that we actually need a population to keep this country going.
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