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Old 01-20-2015, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
15,773 posts, read 9,744,094 times
Reputation: 34668

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
Okay, look. I'm glad he survived. It's a really neat 'chewing gum for the mind' piece and a nice little news bit. The chance of that happening is doubtless fairly slim.

It is not, however, inexplicable. And I do not and will not hold the outcome to be 'supernatural in origin.'

It is something that occurred. There was no twiddling of matter and energy by some intelligence we can't conceive of through some method of transmission we've never observed.*

I'll give you the second definition though, I guess. A wonderful event.

(* and if there had been, and we called it 'supernatural,' it would still only be so until we learned to observe and measure it, at which point it would cease to be supernatural and would instead be called science and knowledge)

I bet you will never convince that guy who survived that wreck it wasn't a "Miracle" !


There are some things that happen in life that we can't put a label on or understand. I have been saved from dying a few times in my life, something intervened at the last second and pulled my butt out of the fire. Seriously, I should have died at least 5 times in my life, but my Guardian Angel, or whatever, decided to not let that happen. There is one instance I still have no explanation for.

So, if we think of these things as miracles, what harm does it cause ?


Don
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Old 01-20-2015, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,644 posts, read 4,915,994 times
Reputation: 4047
Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
So, if we think of these things as miracles, what harm does it cause?
In the interest of compromise and so forth, I suppose in these cases it doesn't cause much harm.

My position is it would be knowable and understandable if we were able to recreate it and understand the physics. Your position is it's not understandable by man at all.

At the end of the day, since we can't recreate it and study it and point out the physics of it, and since we can't detect the presence of divine or extra-dimensional influence, I'll shake hands and say it's a wash.

And, I conceded definition 2 of "miracle" a while back.
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Old 01-20-2015, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Moku Nui, Hawaii
9,316 posts, read 18,003,865 times
Reputation: 7982
Actually, I'd not claim physics, I'd say a lot of it is a result of good engineering. For decades most major (if not all) car manufacturers have been doing everything to keep the passenger area of the car as a crush free zone. One of my first jobs out of college was working in Detroit and they had a big cable rail thing set up in the parking lot next door which would occasionally sling a car into a brick wall. "Ka - **** - BOOM" and then everyone would have to run out to the parking lot to see the results. They'd have cameras set up all over the place to see how the car had fared. This was in the '70's back before a lot of today's computer modeling, they may not be doing this anymore. It was pretty spectacular, in a messy way although at least with the sling and brick wall nobody was hurt.

The guy in this accident has had a huge dollop of "luck" though, which could be assigned to divine intervention of some sort, if one likes. So, perhaps the answer is "physics, good engineering AND divine intervention?" Wish I could figure out how to engineer in divine intervention on a consistent basis.
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Old 01-20-2015, 12:48 PM
 
Location: SWFL
21,547 posts, read 18,206,567 times
Reputation: 18903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
I would not enjoy being like you, either. But I'm sure we would get along in person were we to avoid this topic.
I seriously doubt that but whatever floats your boat. Too bad you had to highjack a thread about a pic that others thought was way cool and had the audacity to say what they thought, be they right or wrong in those feelings. Good job. So people can not express their thoughts unless it is YOUR WAY. Hmmm, I do believe that is called totalitarian. You just couldn't leave it be, huhn? You HAD to cause friction where none was needed. Nah, I wouldn't WANT to be friends with a person I needed to walk on eggshells being around. Been there, done that and divorced him.

You have a good week also.
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,644 posts, read 4,915,994 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiznluv View Post
You have a good week also.
Will do, go in peace.
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:32 PM
bg7
 
7,698 posts, read 7,665,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adner View Post
Might be the wrong subforum but what an example of a absolute miracle. This guy certainly has unfinished business for God. IMO.
No not really. Talk about taking something and running with it.
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Old 01-20-2015, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,146 posts, read 1,014,087 times
Reputation: 1481
Wow!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-20-2015, 04:45 PM
 
17,440 posts, read 14,911,585 times
Reputation: 33147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
The PC thing here is to go along with mainstream media and mindlessly label this a miracle. I choose not to do that.
Give me a break, okay? We're disagreeing on a message board here. My appeal is made to reason, intellectual honesty, and reality, not tired dogma. I am the furthest thing from authoritarian or totalitarian, and I challenge you to find a single post of mine in any other thread where I remotely espoused either philosophy.

Let me help you:

Humanism is a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence over established doctrine or faith. Today Humanism typically refers to a non-theistic life stance centered on human agency, and looking to science instead of religious dogma in order to understand the world.
I saw no mainstream media reports that labeled it a miracle, where are you getting that from?

One thing mainstream media DID label a miracle though is when the US beat the Russians in hockey in the 1980 winter Olympics. It is known as "The Miracle on Ice". Do you really believe people who call it that consider it a religious miracle, or do you suppose maybe they just used a phrase that most people use all the time without any more meaning than someone having beat tremendous odds?? I exclaim "it's a miracle!" even when I find something I thought was lost, but I don't truly think it was a religious miracle. I really think you're literalness is a little extreme and silly.
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Old 01-20-2015, 06:17 PM
 
Location: USA
18,601 posts, read 13,737,089 times
Reputation: 12167
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipaper View Post
I agree about the Chevy truck, I wonder what year it is.
If I find out I'm getting one.

This is why the Insurance Institute's crash tests are fos on their requirements. No crash is head on, perpindicular into a square piece of concrete, or the offset crash test into another square piece of concrete. They are with other cars or trucks in this instance. Next time I go head on into a giant black of concrete in my vehilce I will be hit by lightening at the same time, since the odds would be the same
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Old 01-21-2015, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
15,773 posts, read 9,744,094 times
Reputation: 34668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
In the interest of compromise and so forth, I suppose in these cases it doesn't cause much harm.

My position is it would be knowable and understandable if we were able to recreate it and understand the physics. Your position is it's not understandable by man at all.

At the end of the day, since we can't recreate it and study it and point out the physics of it, and since we can't detect the presence of divine or extra-dimensional influence, I'll shake hands and say it's a wash.

And, I conceded definition 2 of "miracle" a while back.

Yep, I knew what you were saying...........just having some fun with you.

Don
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