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Old 01-20-2015, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
31,749 posts, read 18,638,892 times
Reputation: 12257

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Demanding that a fellow forumer to list their qualifications to make a point, as if you were in some sort of position of authority to do so, is Intellectual Dishonesty at it's greatest.

This exceeds the Intellectual Dishonesty nonsense of your previous theory that you posted earlier about the Mafia. In both cases, it's got nothing to do about Michael Moore blabbering about the sharp shooters in the military and points made about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefragile View Post
Well, I do not agree with that poster calling military personnel subhuman however, to be fair, we have no choice in some of our taxes going toward the military. That does not mean that someone is participating in war. Just as those who are against welfare have no choice that some of their taxes go to those programs, that does not mean that they are participating in it.
If you are an American citizen, and paid Tax, you sent soldiers and Marines to war. Don't pretend that you are not part of the decision making.


Neil Steinberg, Chicago Sun Times columnist, March 11, 2012.

""Veterans should be made more comfortable for having fought in our wars -- but
everyone should be made less comfortable for having sent them."



You especially, waldo kitty you need to calm the hell down. You too, if you have paid tax, part of your tax goes to military budget, you participated in the war. It has nothing to do with "demand a fellow forumer to list their qualifications". It is a FACT. Military service members have no choices either, just like YOU have no choice but to pay tax. Got it?
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Old 01-20-2015, 06:05 PM
 
38,701 posts, read 15,569,749 times
Reputation: 17042
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
....
You especially, waldo kitty you need to calm the hell down. You too, if you have paid tax, part of your tax goes to military budget, you participated in the war. It has nothing to do with "demand a fellow forumer to list their qualifications". It is a FACT. Military service members have no choices either, just like YOU have no choice but to pay tax. Got it?
LOL, if you want to claim the high road with the intellectual dishonesty nonsense, expect to be questioned about it. No matter,


I agree with you 100% about the misuse of our military. But don't cast your vitriol at the soldiers, they just follow orders. Direct it at our commander in chief and congress who keep these endless wars going on without purpose. Obama has now bombed his 7th Arab country since taking office and that is always followed up special forces including snipers. (what he calls no boots on the ground)
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Old 01-20-2015, 06:06 PM
 
981 posts, read 1,858,525 times
Reputation: 1387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
Seems like a calculated attempt to get attention again, by conveniently bad mouthing elements of the military (the military always a target for those desiring notoriety and attention it seems).

https://tv.yahoo.com/news/american-s...230120523.html
I think the biggest fault of the military is all the pork money attached to it. Ironically, it tends to get support from conservatives supposedly against government waste. They get blinded by the patriotic aspects of national defense, even while railing at the government itself. Anything involving guns seems to put 'wingers in a trance.

The movie also perpetuates Hollywood's focus on death and killing as entertainment. If that's what audiences want, the problem is simple human nature.
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Old 01-20-2015, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
31,749 posts, read 18,638,892 times
Reputation: 12257
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
LOL, if you want to claim the high road with the intellectual dishonesty nonsense, expect to be questioned about it. No matter,


I agree with you 100% about the misuse of our military. But don't cast your vitriol at the soldiers, they just follow orders. Direct it at our commander in chief and congress who keep these endless wars going on without purpose. Obama has now bombed his 7th Arab country since taking office and that is always followed up special forces including snipers. (what he calls no boots on the ground)
Your argument is invalid because you have no evidence to prove that I have cast my vitrol at the soldiers.

Your arguments are also inconsistent. Your fake outrage has raised its ugly head. You honestly just sound like a freaking bully. Just for the record, my own brother was a Marine. yes, if you have paid tax, you have sent Marines and soldiers to combat zone, don't pretend that you are not part of the war. Now you bring up Obama? Lol what's wrong with you?

Have fun buddy!
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:41 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,272 posts, read 1,385,685 times
Reputation: 3758
The movie setting seems an incongruous choice. The Iraq invasion benefited a few players - the Islamists, Iran, the parade of charlatans who stepped forward to grab the cash (there was planeloads of it) that was thrown at them - touting themselves as the next 'democratic' leader, China (the Chinese were out in the world doing business while the so-called coalition of the willing slogged through the country) etc. America was arguably the biggest loser - lives lost, money wasted, credibility damaged. To make such a film now - midway through the second decade of the 21st century suggests a considerable lack of recognition of what a disaster Iraq was - or maybe it's just a lack of irony. Anyway, I see it's doing well at the box office.
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Old 01-20-2015, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,241,847 times
Reputation: 4111
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Moore is just jealous of Eastwoods success, and is attacking the subject matter , trying to blight that success.
Do you have evidence of this?

Quentin Tarantino is very successful, and Michael Moore thinks and speaks highly of him. I think that is some evidence that it is the "subject matter", and not the success, that is the issue here.
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Old 01-21-2015, 01:45 AM
 
38,701 posts, read 15,569,749 times
Reputation: 17042
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
... You honestly just sound like a freaking bully. ...Have fun buddy!
People say many things, but it's only their actions that matter. You accuse people of being intellectually dishonest when they make a point but then get hugely upset when, using your own criteria, it's pointed out that you committed the very mistake that you accuse others of making. i.e. Address the message instead of attacking the messenger.
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Old 01-21-2015, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
31,749 posts, read 18,638,892 times
Reputation: 12257
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
People say many things, but it's only their actions that matter. You accuse people of being intellectually dishonest when they make a point but then get hugely upset when, using your own criteria, it's pointed out that you committed the very mistake that you accuse others of making. i.e. Address the message instead of attacking the messenger.
I said "generalize a whole group of people and judge them by their career choices is intellectual dishonesty" .Meaning, Generalizing soldiers and Marines and judge them solely based on their career choices is intellectual dishonesty. If you want to dispute this, I am again, waiting for an intellectual and VALID debate.

That is not attacking the messengers, that is debating an argument.

You accusing me of "attacking soldiers" is the very definition of fake outage, personal attack, and Character assassination" . You are doing the exact thing Michael Moore is doing. you lied. If you can find ANY quote from me to prove that I blamed soldiers and attacked soldiers, go right ahead. Otherwise, I suggest that you avoid the personal attack and false accusation.

You have no evidences to prove that I 'attacked the soldiers". You dramatically changed your argument and your arguments are inconsistent at best.

Are you pro military? Or the very opposite is true. Either way, you are not fooling me. If you are pro military, I respect your opinion. If you are anti-military, again, I respect your opinion. This is a free country. But don't get upset if somebody DEBATE your arguments. Inconsistency, however, will make you look foolish and make you lose all credibility.

My main points are the following

1. Don't judge somebody based on their career choices, generalization is not even for Mafia. Generalization is intellectual dishonesty

2. 1% that is currently serving should not bear the burden of war because EVERYBODY who has paid american tax is part of decision making. If you have not PERSONALLY done something to stop the war, don't blame the soldiers for going to the war. They (soldiers) have no choice but following order, just like tax payers have no choices, but to pay tax.

Again, if you want to dispute the above, I am, again, waiting for a VALID debate.


This thread has nothing to do with President Obama, by the way. I am not an Obama fan, but I don't think you can blame Obama for Michael Moore either. I think you need to learn to stay fair.

Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 01-21-2015 at 09:42 AM..
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Old 01-21-2015, 10:19 AM
 
12,089 posts, read 5,661,434 times
Reputation: 13606
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
If you are an American citizen, and paid Tax, you sent soldiers and Marines to war. Don't pretend that you are not part of the decision making.


Neil Steinberg, Chicago Sun Times columnist, March 11, 2012.

""Veterans should be made more comfortable for having fought in our wars -- but
everyone should be made less comfortable for having sent them."



You especially, waldo kitty you need to calm the hell down. You too, if you have paid tax, part of your tax goes to military budget, you participated in the war. It has nothing to do with "demand a fellow forumer to list their qualifications". It is a FACT. Military service members have no choices either, just like YOU have no choice but to pay tax. Got it?
It is not my choice where my taxes go. So no, I am not actively participating in war. Whereas military personnel, they did have a choice to actively participate in war because.....they signed up for it.
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Old 01-21-2015, 10:30 AM
 
896 posts, read 700,737 times
Reputation: 1576
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreggT View Post
None of the examples you state above apply to your post, you spoke about the Iraq war, I don't need a history lesson.
Obviously you need more than a history or civics lesson.
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