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Old 01-19-2015, 12:40 PM
 
Location: IL
2,992 posts, read 4,402,919 times
Reputation: 3085

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
We have settled in to this us vs. them (and this two-party dominance) for the same reason that sports contests generally consist of one team or one player vs. another team or player (racing being an exception).

Imagine four team football. Most people don't want to. It's not the way it is and it's too hard to think about. Two teams, or us vs. them in all issues and decisions is so much easier. You're either with them or against them. Booyah.

Attached: four team football field. It would be complicated. Better to just stick with us vs. them, no?
Let's get this game going. Would each team have one goal they can attack, or can they attack all three other goals? It may be difficult to watch, lots of confusion.
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Old 01-19-2015, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
19,495 posts, read 20,826,927 times
Reputation: 13756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
We have settled in to this us vs. them (and this two-party dominance) for the same reason that sports contests generally consist of one team or one player vs. another team or player (racing being an exception).

Imagine four team football. Most people don't want to. It's not the way it is and it's too hard to think about. Two teams, or us vs. them in all issues and decisions is so much easier. You're either with them or against them. Booyah.

Attached: four team football field. It would be complicated. Better to just stick with us vs. them, no?
Excellent post. But consider that the basis of Western culture is the adverserial rhetorical process we inherited from the Greeks and Romans. Our politics, our system of justice, our educational establishment, even our interpersonal relationships, are based on it. As a civilization, we are steeped in that way of thinking, and it is unrealistic to expect folks to change their way of thinking overnight.

I am reminded of something the Dalai Lama said (i think it was at Stanford): in so many words, he said "you Americans do a wonderful job of training young people in science, in technology, and in all kinds of professions. What you do a bad job of is teaching your young people about loving kindness."

My thinking on this is that the concept of loving kindness is too sophisticated and multi-faceted for the dualistic kind of thinking that dominates our society. This is part of the reason that violence and disharmony are endemic in present-day America.

To relate this to the thread: unlimited access to firearms, while not the cause of this phenomenon, has made it more mortally hazardous.

Last edited by Yeledaf; 01-19-2015 at 01:45 PM..
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Old 01-19-2015, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
14,552 posts, read 8,368,571 times
Reputation: 29068
Not this again. A gun control person blames a gun rights lobbying group for the actions of a single individual I'll just remind OP (or let him know, since he probably doesn't) that the vast majority of gun owners don't even belong to the NRA. The NRA requires members to pay membership fees, and since there is no requirement for individual gun owners to pay money to keep guns, they see no incentive to belong to such a group. Secondly, the NRA doesn't advocate illegal acts. If they do, I challenge OP to show me some evidence of that. I guarantee him there won't be any. Next lame argument, OP.
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Old 01-19-2015, 05:35 PM
 
Location: I live wherever I am.
1,935 posts, read 3,715,481 times
Reputation: 3235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Feltser View Post
Husband injures wife, kills man, self in Florida mall
A man armed with "several pockets full of ammunition" opened fire at a Florida shopping mall on Saturday, injuring his wife and killing another man before fatally shooting himself, police said.
Raw: Deadly mall shooting in central Florida


"What`s the fuken wrong with this country?" one of my most popular questions...but nevertheless, what`s wrong with this country? Nothing to see here, yet another mass gun deaths in America. The NRA still says you should grab as many guns as you can get in your hands. If you feel a little scared, just use it as pacifier
Simon, you may not like me as I am pro-gun, but I can tell you that the proper operation of a gun by a law-abiding citizen in self-defense probably saved my life when I was a young child. An armed burglar broke into our house and my dad shot him... the shot wasn't fatal but it did incapacitate him, and the gun enabled my dad to hold the guy in place until the cops arrived. If my dad hadn't been armed, who knows what would have become of my parents or me. Even if my life were spared, if the guy had killed even one of my parents, my life would have been irreversibly damaged.

The NRA says you should grab as many guns as possible because there is a rising tide of people who are anti-gun without even understanding the other side of the argument. All they see is "people are killing other people with guns". They don't see guys like me who owe their lives to a gun. And fortunately for them, they have never been in a position where they'd really want to have a gun. When people are put into that position, suddenly it becomes obvious why everyone should have a gun. If you are likely to be in a confrontation with an armed criminal, your only hope is to be armed with a deadly weapon yourself. That baseball bat by your door won't do a bit of good for you against a guy with a 9.

And why should you grab as many guns as possible? Because it is possible, since these gunophobes keep electing anti-gun politicians into government, that the time will come when the government will try to take your guns. Already, it is nearly impossible to own a gun in many areas of the country even if you are a law-abiding citizen with no criminal history... and the areas where it is really difficult to own a gun are always controlled by liberal politicians. Try New York and New Jersey, for starters - I live close enough to those states. In New York, you have to get the approval of a judge to buy a gun, and it is a months-long process involving a lot of paperwork and fees. In New Jersey, you have to get a "firearms ID card" and without it, you can't purchase anything relating to a gun. (I live in Ohio. I can purchase ammo in Pennsylvania. I cannot purchase ammo in New Jersey.) And forget getting a concealed carry permit in those states.

Ultimately it comes down to this - if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.

I read not long ago that back in the days of the Wild Wild West, there were towns in Arizona where it was illegal to come to a town meeting WITHOUT a gun. Now WHY do you suppose THAT would be? Why would it be REQUIRED that everyone have a gun? Simple. SAFETY. Criminals prefer unarmed victims. I guarantee you that if that guy who broke into my family's house three decades ago had known that my dad was armed and unafraid to shoot, he'd have taken his chances on some other house.

There is absolutely no need to worry about guns if they are in the hands of law-abiding citizens who know how to use them. It's when those law-abiding citizens DON'T have guns that we have a major problem, because criminals always will find a way to get guns.
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Old 01-19-2015, 05:59 PM
 
Location: California
392 posts, read 266,615 times
Reputation: 486
It's all part of the American way of life.

By the way, the FBI did confirm a rise in number of mass shootings in the United States between 2007 and 2013. Data for 2014 has not been released yet.
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Old 01-19-2015, 06:22 PM
 
6,223 posts, read 3,515,552 times
Reputation: 21679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Temeku View Post
It's all part of the American way of life.

By the way, the FBI did confirm a rise in number of mass shootings in the United States between 2007 and 2013. Data for 2014 has not been released yet.
Our government seems to have discovered a new way to assess violence. Could it be to create a means to an end?

What do you think when you hear the words "mass shootings?" Now have a look at what is really meant:



Why You Shouldn?t Fear the Mass-Shooting Rise -- Science of Us

Statistics and term definitions - two sneaky rascals, indeed!
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Old 01-19-2015, 06:32 PM
 
5,239 posts, read 6,737,236 times
Reputation: 11326
This specific incident was thought to be a domestic dispute. Possibly the jealous husband (57) believed his wife (33) was seeing another guy or was going to leave him. The 36 year old guy that died was owner of a food court restaurant there. Domestic disputes that result in injury or death are nothing new and the weapon is not always a gun either.

I believe there are better sections of CD for a 100 page debate on gun control. OP, If that's what you want to talk about in this thread, I suggest you ask them to move it to Great Debates.

http://www.mynews13.com/content/news...urne_mall.html
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Old 01-19-2015, 10:27 PM
 
5,076 posts, read 8,450,561 times
Reputation: 4632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks View Post
Not this again. A gun control person blames a gun rights lobbying group for the actions of a single individual I'll just remind OP (or let him know, since he probably doesn't) that the vast majority of gun owners don't even belong to the NRA. The NRA requires members to pay membership fees, and since there is no requirement for individual gun owners to pay money to keep guns, they see no incentive to belong to such a group. Secondly, the NRA doesn't advocate illegal acts. If they do, I challenge OP to show me some evidence of that. I guarantee him there won't be any. Next lame argument, OP.
Labeling the NRA as a gun rights lobbying group is misleading. They're a gun sales lobby group that uses gun rights as a marketing strategy. They fact that they're a lobby and not a radical group itself indicates that they're not primarily interested in perpetrating illegal acts, but changing laws so that certain activities remain or become legal.

Now, with that said, they're no more ethical or moral than any other sales lobby and they stick their influence into a number of issues that have little direct affect on gun rights. Their primary interest is making it possible for people to buy more guns. Part of that is to help pass legislation that absolves both the buyers and sellers of any liability in the event a gun is misused. That, in my opinion is what makes this particular lobby unique. There isn't a single other product available for sale that has as much capacity to do harm and is relatively unregulated. If toddlers could drive cars, there would be an enormous amount of pressure to build cars that couldn't be driven by toddlers. Guns? Well, they're in a class by themselves.
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Old 01-19-2015, 10:33 PM
 
569 posts, read 538,928 times
Reputation: 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Feltser View Post
Husband injures wife, kills man, self in Florida mall
A man armed with "several pockets full of ammunition" opened fire at a Florida shopping mall on Saturday, injuring his wife and killing another man before fatally shooting himself, police said.
Raw: Deadly mall shooting in central Florida


"What`s the fuken wrong with this country?" one of my most popular questions...but nevertheless, what`s wrong with this country? Nothing to see here, yet another mass gun deaths in America. The NRA still says you should grab as many guns as you can get in your hands. If you feel a little scared, just use it as pacifier
Do you actually think restricting guns to law abiding citizens will have any effect on criminals and those who really want to kill people? If you do, just get in the Kool Aid line and drink long and deep because you are too far gone for any remedy.....
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Old 01-19-2015, 11:00 PM
 
6,981 posts, read 4,432,469 times
Reputation: 5136
its a phase hopefully. lots of copycat crimes, people see how famous you can get on social media by doing something daring.

The rest of the people who do these things are just BS Crazy hopped up on drugs.

Not to mention what ever is in our water, that's a whole different discussion.
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