U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-23-2015, 01:21 PM
 
Location: TX
3,916 posts, read 4,556,249 times
Reputation: 4329

Advertisements

Sorry, but this is BS! I'm a senior with ADD. Many many years ago, as a child, I grew up in a poor but stable 2-parent loving home. We had plenty of discipline (spanking, whipping, other punishment), attended church, had lots of play and lots of exercise outdoor and indoor. All the outdoor play in the world would not have made the problem go away. NOTHING could cure my ADD! Although I never knew I had it until middle-aged, it affected my life severely. All the problems were there from the beginning of my life, even to now. School was harder for me...my mind constantly wandering, thoughts unfinished, interrupted by daydreams or a series of other thoughts. I KNEW I was different, but couldn't understand how or why. I became shy and introverted, felt I was not good enough. I clearly remember the phrase "If you would only apply yourself" followed by statements that indicated that would solve all those problems. I WAS trying! My parents were good parents and they tried, but nobody knew what the problems was back then. I dropped out of high school without finishing. Relationships were harder than with normal people. Raising a child was harder...like the blind leading the blind, kind of...except my daughter was lucky...she didn't have it! I'm totally disorganized, never had enough coherent stuff going on in my head to keep jobs long enough...although I always tried to work hard and did my best. I've never taken medication for my condition other than herbal aids, but I wish I could have when younger so I could have had a better career. I did go back and do college late in life and managed...somehow. By then I'd gotten counseling, developed some coping mechanisms, had some support from my husband, so even though I had to spend twice as much time studying as the average student, I somehow made it through! ADHD and ADD may occasionally be diagnosed mistakenly, but it DOES exist as a disease!

Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
AdHD is pure nonsense and starting these poor kids on drugs is silly and harmful to the child.

1. What lots of kids need is more discipline. That is, get out of line, misbehave, etc. and you'll be punished. That's what a spanking was for. That's part of the way to keep a child to behave.

2. Children, with very active bodies and lots of energy, need time to blow it off. What I was in school we have a morning and afternoon 15 minute recess, and a one hour lunch time, all of which was spent outside, playing on the playground, playing kickball, that kind of stuff. And this was in Wisconsin, all winter long. YOu can't expect kids, especially boys with lots of energy to sit in a classroom all day and pay attention. Its unnatural. I really feel sorry for kids today. Recess and play time is also a good remedy for this problem.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-23-2015, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,848 posts, read 26,540,188 times
Reputation: 27080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee W. View Post
Sorry, but this is BS! I'm a senior with ADD. Many many years ago, as a child, I grew up in a poor but stable 2-parent loving home. We had plenty of discipline (spanking, whipping, other punishment), attended church, had lots of play and lots of exercise outdoor and indoor. All the outdoor play in the world would not have made the problem go away. NOTHING could cure my ADD! Although I never knew I had it until middle-aged, it affected my life severely. All the problems were there from the beginning of my life, even to now. School was harder for me...my mind constantly wandering, thoughts unfinished, interrupted by daydreams or a series of other thoughts. I KNEW I was different, but couldn't understand how or why. I became shy and introverted, felt I was not good enough. I clearly remember the phrase "If you would only apply yourself" followed by statements that indicated that would solve all those problems. I WAS trying! My parents were good parents and they tried, but nobody knew what the problems was back then. I dropped out of high school without finishing. Relationships were harder than with normal people. Raising a child was harder...like the blind leading the blind, kind of...except my daughter was lucky...she didn't have it! I'm totally disorganized, never had enough coherent stuff going on in my head to keep jobs long enough...although I always tried to work hard and did my best. I've never taken medication for my condition other than herbal aids, but I wish I could have when younger so I could have had a better career. I did go back and do college late in life and managed...somehow. By then I'd gotten counseling, developed some coping mechanisms, had some support from my husband, so even though I had to spend twice as much time studying as the average student, I somehow made it through! ADHD and ADD may occasionally be diagnosed mistakenly, but it DOES exist as a disease!
Have you considered talking to someone to see if you are a candidate to take medication now? If you have no medical contraindications, a trial with meds is worth considering.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2015, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Chicago
607 posts, read 595,500 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post

Have you ever talked with an adult with ADHD? You might be surprised to learn what a difference medication makes in their lives. Actually, you have probably talked with a lot of adults with ADHD and did not know it, because they are happy and productive.

.
I would hate to rely on a pill to be "happy". At best, perhaps to guide my brain to think properly in relatively severe mental states, such as depression or worse, but on a long-term basis for ADHD?

I did not know adults took that pill on a long-term basis as those with severe mental issues do. wow...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2015, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Chicago
607 posts, read 595,500 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp03 View Post
Right. Isn't it odd to anyone that the number of cases has gone up so much? Its being over diagnosed.
I would like to know who is the "seer" who decides what is mentally normal thought or behavior in the US, and, not unrelated, what of that would require pills, short or long term.

Where was this adult malady in years past, and how did people deal with it without psychoactive drugs?

At what point does culture, US or otherwise, meme a new malady and give it an acronym? Also, per the same, what input do the very wealthy Big Pharma companies have in all this, per paying for studies and lobbying the FDA and such?

What people are missing here is that it is in the best interest of the pharmaceutical companies to keep new uses flowing as old drugs go generic, and to keep people in the mindset of "needing" to take drugs for issues that people simply dealt with for about 99.999999999999% of mankinds existence.

Mental issues are not "solved" by drugs, not even including the side effects, such as suicidal tendencies, lack of sex drive(though of course there is always Viagra - LOL), etc. If only it was as simple as taking a little pill for years.

Miracles they are not..crutches, and profits, massive at that, for Big Pharma, they definitely are..

moderator cut: image removed

Last edited by Marka; 01-25-2015 at 01:42 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2015, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Chicago
607 posts, read 595,500 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
My mother (now age 70) was suddenly diagnosed with ADD about 15 years ago and put on meds for it (I think Ritalin, but not completely sure.) I never noticed any ADD symptoms in her prior to the diagnosis, but she's seemed to have horrible ADD ever since starting on the meds She's told me that without that medication, she would just sleep all day. Her behavior has been very off since being on ADD medication, that's for sure. She's mentioned that when trying to find a new doctor, they have been in strong disagreement with all the medication she's on (she's also on pain killers and anti-anxiety meds), so I think some quack just has her drugged up. I know she has to see some psychiatrist once a year to be able to get refills. Of course, he or she doesn't know how many actual psychiatric problems she has, or how difficult it is to deal with her.
Sounds like the combination is the prob....sounds like she is taking multiple pills for various uses, and they are conflicting.....also, not everyone has a beneficient reaction to drugs, including psychoactive ones.

The body senses something foreign to its' system, and rejects it de facto by all those side effects they mention en masse at the ends of Ads.

The human body is the most complex machine on earth, and adding foreign neurotransmitters and such into the mix often causes havoc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2015, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Chicago
607 posts, read 595,500 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
ADHD? No adult I know has ever admitted it to me, but I do know two BiPolar Adults; my own daughter, and her cousin. My daughter was a real handful growing up, but even BiPolar wasn't diagnosed much back in those days. At 21 she committed herself to a hospital when she tried to slit her wrists, and that is when they "found" it. Is BiPolar "outgrown"?

Can that be cured? My daughter was told no it can't be cured but it can be "managed" with meds for the rest of her life. It was horrible when she was on these meds. They kept switching dosages, different brands, etc., because not a one did not present some kind of problems after a time. She finally got fed up with it all and stopped taking them. "I will learn how to deal with my ups and downs all by myself". That was 15 years ago. She is now medication free, married, and has a job she loves. LIFE never handed her some very, very bad curv balls over all those years? Of course, but she was able to deal with it. Her cousin hasn't been on meds for over 20 years. Her youngest is now graduating HS this year. She somehow managed to live her life, and raise 3 kids, without these meds. Both of them are today walking around among you all too.

I do not want to get OT on this thread, but medicine wants the public to be on some kind of meds for the rest of their lives.
Jo, this is a heartwarming post you have here..

Two people actually dealt with the issues they were "dealt with", with the willpower and strength the good Lord gave them, with courage, and got over the situation. That is the only way to truly and ultimately get thru and over any mental issue, short of something entirely over-the-top such as schizophrenia.

It's all about balance, and being willing and able to face your situation and change your mindset, not hide behind purple/pink/blue oval pills.

The people I know who take a ton of these pills(some for years) are all basket cases, now with addictions to boot. That is beyond sad.

I don't even know those two women, but, being a fellow human, I am proud of them....

moderator cut: image removed

Last edited by Marka; 01-25-2015 at 01:43 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2015, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Chicago
607 posts, read 595,500 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
I have a son who suffers from severe ADD.
He went undiagnosed for a long time because he has never been hyperactive or disruptive, but at age 8, testing showed he could not concentrate on a subject for more than 10 seconds at a time. By then, he had completed the 3rd grade, but was still unable to read or write. He also suffers from dyslexia.

He was prescribed Ritalin, and we had some trouble at first getting his dosage right. He really disliked the jittery feeling it gave him, but it improved his concentration span immensely, and also helped his dyslexia very much. Eventually, his doctor found the right dosage of time-release Ritalin that helped him without giving him the jitters.

He repeated the 3rd grade, and from there on, he had no trouble keeping up with the rest of his class, and he graduated High School. A few years later, he attended a 4-year technical school and graduated from there as well. He continued to take Ritalin throughout; in his years at tech school, he medicated himself whenever he felt the need for it, as by then he could tell when is attention span began wavering.

All I can say is before Ritalin, we both believed he would never make it all the way through school. Like so many other kids who were never diagnosed, he would faithfully attend school, steadily falling farther and farther behind his classmates, until he was old enough to drop out, and then would never hold a good paying job for the rest of his life.

These days, he's making $25 hr. on his job, loves it, has purchased his own house, and is leading a happy life as an adult. If you ask him, he will say it was the Ritalin and a couple of dedicated teachers in elementary school who helped him catch up, that is responsible for who he is today. I fully agree. The difference in one year on the drug was remarkable.

I won't deny that Ritalin is being used for the wrong purposes, or that it is being over-prescribed. I am also sure that it is not a cure-all for all kids. But the drug, when carefully monitored and prescribed does work, and may be the effective first step in helping very complex cases of hyperactivity, depression, and other childhood disorders.

For Ritalin to do its work at its best capability requires a good doctor, involved parents, and good teachers and other caretakers who understand these children's problems. If any one of that combination isn't there, the child won't be as effectively treated, and may not be helped nearly as much. It is very easy to put the blame on a drug alone, but Ritalin does work, and does change young lives for the better.

That's great..

They did that the right way, finding out the proper dosage over time....

There is no one size fits all drug. If this helped your son, or even if he "thought" it did and it worked as a placebo, good enough. It worked, period....

Sometimes that happens......we are not demonizing this, just trying to figure out what is a proper mandate for it, and when it goes far beyond the same. I still don't think it is as simple as a just a drug, with no other mediation. Sounds like you were loving and patient parents, and that counts for something. That being said, even psychiatrists administer drugs typically with in-person counseling as well. I think it was as much to do with your concern, patience, and love over the years as the pills.

Also, hard to say what the long term effects are over the years, if he took it daily for many years, considering this is going directly into the brain daily, a growing one at that. Hard to say what the long-term effects on that could be, which may not show up till later years, especially if he is still on it now. What happens if he stops? Is this behavior he has learned, ingrained, at this point? Is he still on it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2015, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Chicago
607 posts, read 595,500 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
Most of these kids diagnosed with a problem, actually do not have a problem. They have a lot of energy. The problem is adults who don't understand. Lots of kids especially boys just have a lot of energy, much more than they realize. No wonder my mother constantly sent her four boys outside to play. For example, in HS, I could play full court basketball at full speed for hours at a time. When boys and young men have that kind of energy level, sitting in school and paying attention is difficult.

But I have another final comment. From what I know, a lot of these ADHD kids are actually pretty smart kids. Part of the problem is that they are bored in school and that was certainly true of me. I hated HS. I was bored out of my mind, but loved college because all of a sudden, the classes were running twice as fast and we were actually learning things rather than enduring hours of not much more than babysitting. IHMO, we should look at the problems with the way schools are being run, not blaming the kids for not being able to conform to boredom and mediocrity.
Two people who also could not sit still, were NOT ever on ADHD meds, and how they both turned out. One became quite wealthy, and the came up with an interesting equation or two..

moderator cut: image removed

A young Albert Einstein...

moderator cut: image removed

Last edited by Marka; 01-25-2015 at 01:43 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2015, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Chicago
607 posts, read 595,500 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
There's something to what you are saying. I sometimes reflect upon my own parenting of my children. I was able to give my children many things, but what I could not give them was the lifestyle that I enjoyed in the 1960's growing up in a place in Utah that I would call "half suburban/half rural".

I couldn't give my children the freedom to run and play virtually unhindered over a vacant tract of land that was about 2 miles wide and 2 miles long, complete with rolling hills and a creek, because that land was long since developed into housing.

I couldn't give my children the freedom to ride horses with their friends up and down the streets because of zoning laws and restrictions that now prohibit people from owning horses and livestock in virtually any residential area that I am now aware of.

I couldn't let my children ride a small-gasoline powered motorbike when they were 11 or 12, like I did, because it was against the law and unlike when I grew up, the law was being enforced. (I also worried they would get hurt, but for some reason my parents never seemed too).

I could take my children camping and exploring in the national parks and national forests where I live, but I learned the hard way that these kinds of things have a hard time holding the interest of kids who have been shown by their friends and everyone around them "the wonders of electronic toys" like cell phones, nintendo and x-box.

When my children were over at their friend's houses, I could bet about 8-1 that part of their play activities would involve electronic games.

When I sent my children to boy scout or girl scout camp, the poor leader had to always make a point of asking all the kids in the troop to surrender all the electronic toys their parents had purchased for them.

Life has changed greatly in the last hundred years and I suspect a lot of ADD and ADHD problems have some relationship to the way that we all live. We can't roll the clock back and go back to a time when none of these new technologies or "inconveniences" existed. Yet, I think its precisely our inability to do that that is impacting badly on not only the mental health of children, but of many adults as well.

There is no pill, quick fix, or treatment that is going to make all these things better. We can't stop the inevitable march of the world even further into the future. So, my prediction is these problems are just going to get worse In an ideal world, the population would grow at a smaller rate and there would not be as much competition for resources, money, and land as there is. I can't stop any of that, but it does make me sad.

***I do not dispute the fact that many children would have ADHD or ADD even without the changes I have described. I also do not dispute the fact that Ritalin and other medications are very helpful for some children. I just think they are overused and often don't address the real or core problems we face in this culture.
Mark..beautifully written!

I agree..at a certain point this is a culturally induced problem. We are all ADD. The bombardment of Ads, smart phone apps and notifications(and video games), constant "rhesus monkey" texting, phone calls....all that does add up to a need for drugs for children suffering and feeling first(being most sensitive, ala the canaries in a mineshaft thing), what is really a problem of a changing society, speeding up faster and faster, for what use or good I have no idea..

Those wonderful old school childhood activities requite one thing....patience....and the lack of mediated technology. Quite hard to play video games when riding horses in the wild....lol...

moderator cut: image removed

Last edited by Marka; 01-25-2015 at 01:43 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2015, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Chicago
607 posts, read 595,500 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I have one child with ADHD (adult now) out of my four. Believe me, ADHD is very real and it's definitely a medical condition. However, we didn't put him on Ritalin. Instead, he was put on a very low dose of Tofranil (sometimes prescribed for bed wetting, though he didn't have that issue at all). It seemed to work fairly well, but eventually as he got older he told me that he preferred how he felt without the medication to how he felt with it, so eventually (about age 14 or so) we weaned him from it.

My son is also severely dyslexic - with a genius level IQ. Let's just say that parenting him was one of the biggest challenges of my life - but he is worth every bit of stress over it all!

I just had to respond to this because so many people poo-poo the diagnosis of ADHD as if it doesn't exist. I can assure you it most definitely DOES exist as a very real physical condition. Sure, there may be some misdiagnoses, but that doesn't negate the reality of the condition.
Again, all mental "maladies and aberations" do exist......I would imagine we all have some malfunction of some sort, some more than others. Not all can or should(or could) be managed, let alone cured, with a simple pill. Life is not that simple.

It is in the best interest of the pharmaceutical industry to overdiagnose and prescribe anything imaginable, and to inflate those maladies that have even a sliver of tangibility. Keeping people medicated long-term is also in the interest of the same firms.

Even with a child that exhibits these traits, can't pills be a temporary solution, such as the -pam family of drugs are for depression, in that they teach people/brains, train them, of sorts, to think like that for themselves? Who ever said Ritalin had/has to be a long-term, entire childhood/teenhood thing? Is not the point to slowly but surely wean people off these things, and let them eventually cope naturally thru this?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top