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Old 01-24-2015, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Chicago
607 posts, read 593,671 times
Reputation: 832

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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I would need to see those studies. Frankly, I'm skeptical of that particular theory. Pesticides have been in heavy use in this country since the end of World War II. ADD and ADHD have only been noticeable problems since perhaps the 1980's.



I don't think I will compare the symptoms for something like ADD that appear in the DSM V with the symptoms for a disease like "strep throat" that I can find in Lange's Current Medical Diagnosis and Treatment. Respectfully, the simple point that I make is the symptoms and signs for diagnosing something ADD are more subjective and depend on the conclusions that a mental health professional draws after he assesses a patient. There is no "bright red throat". There is no fever. There is no discharge. There is no positive result to a strep test. What it generally comes down to is a series of questions and answers. Conclusions are drawn based on those answers.

My point is not that mental health professionals are incompetent or that ADD is not real or does not exist. I know better than that and everyone else should too. My point is simply that the diagnosis is a more complex one than for physical ailments. I think factors play into it like:

1. Mom and Dad are complaining that their child is failing school and literally driving their pediatrician, psychologist, or psychiatrist nutty.

2. Its a demanding world and kids are under pressure to do well in school often from the very beginning.

3. There is no "stay-home" parent to manage Johnny and see that he completes his reading and his studies and working parents, instead turn to the mental health field for a solution to their problem.

I believe these factors cause professionals to diagnose borderline cases as ADD and ADHD and to choose medication for treatment when more structured parenting might work better.

Your points about parenting are well taken. But, in the end, the problem is that too many parents--for many reasons--are simply unable to provide children with a range of activities that interest them, are healthy for them, and burn up energy. Most parents probably can't afford the kind of neighborhood you describe. Or, that neighborhood isn't reasonably near mom or dad's place of employment.
Spot-on!

Also, keep in mind that the majority of children in the US grow up in the suburbs of metro areas. Those areas are urban deserts, in that they are built for cars solely(some, actually, many, lack even sidewalks).

In this desert, they stay in the house much of the time, playing video games or on the computer...when they are out, if they are older, they are on their smart phones, displaying outwardly the symptoms of autism(staring down at apps and phone, avoiding eye and human contact).

What we are doing is divorcing ourselves more and more from the natural environment, and the normal, relazed rhythms and pacing children enjoyed years back. I would even say my generation(I was born in 1962) was the last gen to have a close relationship with the real environment as kids. The one coming up just behind us already had Atari and Mattel portable games. Call us the last pinball machine/record jukebox generation, if you will..

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I think society itself is making us ALL ADD/HDHD.....enmasse......to various extents...our children are simply canaries in a coal mine, feeling it first and foremost.....

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Quite simply, I do not think our brains have evolved to surf the internet and fish for apps and notifications on ever present personal devices(I would def call an oblisk we plug in the wall last thing before we go to sleep and check for apps first thing we wake up a 24/7 thing).....ADD and the like are simply a mass endemic suffered first and foremost by children now, products of a sick culture, divorcing itself more and more from a pure, diurnal, "speak to fellow humans face to face rather than thru apps" world...

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Its a very strange world we now live in....and children are just feeling these new effects more than others....

Last edited by Marka; 01-25-2015 at 01:44 AM..
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Old 01-24-2015, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Chicago
607 posts, read 593,671 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory View Post
High blood pressure, diabetes, cancer, depression and ADD are the biggest money makers of them all.


.
Not to change the subject, but they are in more ways than one...

Look at weight gain and loss.....they make money on both ends, coming and going.......bad living sells a ton of bad food, alcohol, you name it....then they make money off the drugs to make you better.....I suppose that, sadly, is what keeps our GDP humming....for what it is worth...

strange world we live in, where we even sell games you can play while taking a dump at Walgreens..

moderator cut: image removed

Last edited by Marka; 01-25-2015 at 01:44 AM..
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Old 01-24-2015, 09:31 PM
 
17,695 posts, read 15,062,562 times
Reputation: 33478
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottkuzminski View Post
Not to change the subject, but they are in more ways than one...

Look at weight gain and loss.....they make money on both ends, coming and going.......bad living sells a ton of bad food, alcohol, you name it....then they make money off the drugs to make you better.....I suppose that, sadly, is what keeps our GDP humming....for what it is worth...

strange world we live in, where we even sell games you can play while taking a dump at Walgreens..
That's awesome!
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Old 01-24-2015, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Chicago
607 posts, read 593,671 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
That's awesome!
and hilarious, isn't it?

Amazing how many things one is capable of doing on the toilet besides reading the National Enquirer or Cosmo mag...

Do you get extra points if the ball bounces back up into your pants down around your ankles? That has to be worth at least an extra 10 points easy..
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Old 01-25-2015, 07:13 AM
 
28,188 posts, read 19,837,195 times
Reputation: 16534
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottkuzminski View Post
I think the confusion lies in implying that there is a cure for this.

Brain chemistry is very complex(beyond comprehension). There is no certainty what global effects on the young brain a battery of years of this drug can do per damage, per the fact that it is growing and maturing.

Short of severe mental illness, it is shocking that parents drink the kool-aid that big pharma has been selling with this over the years...

Perhaps patience and time, which parents have so little of now, would be far more effective...
As noted, we've chosen not to medicate our son. Why do you assume so many parents jump to do this though? I know families who have struggled for years with their decision to give their children medicine. Its a very difficult decision.

The myth that parents are just drugging their children doesn't make the decision any easier.
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Old 01-25-2015, 07:16 AM
 
28,188 posts, read 19,837,195 times
Reputation: 16534
Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
Most of these kids diagnosed with a problem, actually do not have a problem. They have a lot of energy. The problem is adults who don't understand. Lots of kids especially boys just have a lot of energy, much more than they realize. No wonder my mother constantly sent her four boys outside to play. For example, in HS, I could play full court basketball at full speed for hours at a time. When boys and young men have that kind of energy level, sitting in school and paying attention is difficult.

But I have another final comment. From what I know, a lot of these ADHD kids are actually pretty smart kids. Part of the problem is that they are bored in school and that was certainly true of me. I hated HS. I was bored out of my mind, but loved college because all of a sudden, the classes were running twice as fast and we were actually learning things rather than enduring hours of not much more than babysitting. IHMO, we should look at the problems with the way schools are being run, not blaming the kids for not being able to conform to boredom and mediocrity.
There are different types of ADHD.

The 7 Types of ADD and How to Treat Each One
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Old 01-25-2015, 07:30 AM
 
10,608 posts, read 13,492,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I have one child with ADHD (adult now) out of my four. Believe me, ADHD is very real and it's definitely a medical condition. However, we didn't put him on Ritalin. Instead, he was put on a very low dose of Tofranil (sometimes prescribed for bed wetting, though he didn't have that issue at all). It seemed to work fairly well, but eventually as he got older he told me that he preferred how he felt without the medication to how he felt with it, so eventually (about age 14 or so) we weaned him from it.

My son is also severely dyslexic - with a genius level IQ. Let's just say that parenting him was one of the biggest challenges of my life - but he is worth every bit of stress over it all!

I just had to respond to this because so many people poo-poo the diagnosis of ADHD as if it doesn't exist. I can assure you it most definitely DOES exist as a very real physical condition. Sure, there may be some misdiagnoses, but that doesn't negate the reality of the condition.
Armchair quarterbacks abound.

My kid had mild dyslexia too. I remember YEARS of reinforcement that you probably remember, too. Such as:

Need to double check making a B instead of a D?

Make a bed with your forefingers and thumb.

The left is the B and the right is the D.


As usual, people with ABSOLUTELY NO EXPERIENCE are making pronouncements on a BRAIN issue with easy arm chair diagnosis:

No stay at home parent

Mom and Dad complaining

Child not achieving.

we all have some malfunction of some sort



I had to PULL my kid from high school MATH because the idiot teacher "didn't believe in ADD or IEP's"

I had a tutor who did math at home and he never forgot that material even as an adult.

And it's no surprise to me your child was male. Schools have VERY LITTLE TOLERANCE for boys since around the 1980s anyway. ADD or no ADD.
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Old 01-25-2015, 07:48 AM
 
10,608 posts, read 13,492,203 times
Reputation: 17170
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
My mother (now age 70) was suddenly diagnosed with ADD about 15 years ago and put on meds for it (I think Ritalin, but not completely sure.) I never noticed any ADD symptoms in her prior to the diagnosis, but she's seemed to have horrible ADD ever since starting on the meds She's told me that without that medication, she would just sleep all day. Her behavior has been very off since being on ADD medication, that's for sure. She's mentioned that when trying to find a new doctor, they have been in strong disagreement with all the medication she's on (she's also on pain killers and anti-anxiety meds), so I think some quack just has her drugged up. I know she has to see some psychiatrist once a year to be able to get refills. Of course, he or she doesn't know how many actual psychiatric problems she has, or how difficult it is to deal with her.
I don't understand the statement "when TRYING to find a new doctor they have been in strong disagreement with all the meds she's on".

Is she DOCTOR SHOPPING or IN TREATMENT?

Did your mother get diagnosed with dementia? Alzheimers type ? OCD? OCD and anxiety are not mutually exclusive. Does she have fixations? Delusions?

Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder(OCD) and Dementia

The medication may be also Adderall.

Primarily Inattentive ADD: ADHD Therapy may help Dementia Risk

You're indicating your mother has psychiatric problems. But she only goes once a year.

I wouldn't be blaming the doctor for not being able to find the magic cocktail to stabilize her; as is common with psychiatric patients who simply won't go for treatment regularly.

She needs to START with a full neurological work up. A psychiatrist can only do so much especially with seniors. And these diseases can start earlier than what you'd expect.

I bet you a dollar you won't be able to make her GO or keep going, either.

How "OFF" can she be more than before if she was spending the ENTIRE DAY in bed?
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Old 01-25-2015, 08:01 AM
 
685 posts, read 535,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelinLow View Post
OP, your points are spot on, but sadly, not a new concern. As a previous ''mental health professional'' who has also worked in childrens' programs, I have observed this first hand.
Not going to be popular, but I am going to say it, I think ADHD and ADD are ''designer'' diagnoses. Meaning ''pharma excuses''. Poor or nonexistant parenting is the culprit. In very rare instances a child might have some chemical imbalances in the brain beyond a Red Bull/high fructose constant sugar high, but very very few do.
I came to believe that ''family life'' as we used to know it has become non-existant for many kids. Exercise and outdoor play are being taken away by schools and overly protective parents and hours of sedentary video game watching and texting instead of being active with friends.
Kids are being ''ware housed'' like many pets and old people. Drug 'em up to keep them compliant. I left that world of mental ''non-health'' as I could no longer tolerate the ''instant fix'' mentality of the parents and doctors.
It's the pharms. drugging us whether it makes sense or not. They want the money.
47 years ago, we were driving to our family vacation. My stepmother said how a child at a camp was forced to take Ritalin. It didn't make any sense to me then but, of course, it makes sense now - $$.

It's not a baby-sitter and can make the problems worse. So rather than looking for the real reasons of the problem (too much processed food and sugar, etc.) drug the human.

Create a label and create a scare then add a drug that wasn't designed for the results. In the elections, the label and the scare are there. Do we drug the candidates more?
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Old 01-25-2015, 08:05 AM
 
Location: New Yawk
8,672 posts, read 4,848,677 times
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Yes, and I don't think people realize the commitment that comes with medication. My son has to check in with the doctor every three months for blood work, urine check, and a new Rx, which involves missing school and work. Not to mention weekly visits with a counselor and twice-yearly visits to a cardiologist, and hundreds of dollars in co-pays.

I have no doubt that meds used to be given to children too liberally, but nowadays doctors are more cautious. Rightfully so, because it's not something that should be taken lightly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
As noted, we've chosen not to medicate our son. Why do you assume so many parents jump to do this though? I know families who have struggled for years with their decision to give their children medicine. Its a very difficult decision.

The myth that parents are just drugging their children doesn't make the decision any easier.
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