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Old 01-22-2015, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Central Florida
3,081 posts, read 1,589,660 times
Reputation: 10364

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Opinionated View Post
It's a business. Whether anyone is pro or anti-gay is irrelevant! A true professional does'nt care what your personal life is about or where you come from because gay, straight, white, black, female, any legal tender spends the same!
That is a ridiculous statement. So making money at your profession trumps any belief or integrity you may have?

 
Old 01-22-2015, 02:53 PM
 
15,125 posts, read 8,652,503 times
Reputation: 25244
Quote:
Originally Posted by headingtoDenver View Post
That is a horrible analogy and doesn't even make sense. Why would the photographer agree to do the job and then refuse to do the job. Where your analogy could come into play would be if the couple wanted to have a picture taken in front of a sign that says "god hates straight people". He could then refuse to take that particular picture if he or she chose.
Agreed, not remotely the same thing.

This baker had no problems baking the cake (a Christian woman herself I might add), but refused to personally decorate it with hateful words.

Totally different concept.

I'm wondering how the anti gay crowd would feel if this lady was in a situation where she refused to decorate a cake with racist slurs against people of color (by some neo Nazi types_).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay5835 View Post
Gayface for days.
I wouldn't be surprised if he was like one of those anti gay hypocrites who get some on the side.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 05:31 PM
 
8,163 posts, read 5,742,333 times
Reputation: 11610
This is getting stupid. The bakers should have the right to not put anti-gay statements on the cake. The bakers should also have the right to refuse to make gay marriage cakes.

What confuses me is how we have gotten to the point where we think we can COMPEL people to do work for us.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 05:45 PM
 
191 posts, read 176,287 times
Reputation: 370
Yea dude's not stupid.... he does that and he can kiss his business buh bye.

Better to get some small claims case from one tool then a mass case from the public who won't shop there anymore
 
Old 01-22-2015, 06:17 PM
 
920 posts, read 478,976 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
It wasn't a gay bakery. The bakery is owned by a Christian woman and she offered to bake the cake and give him the materials to write what ever he wanted on the cake.

Bakery 1 makes wedding cakes, and refuses to make them for a couple based on their sexual orientation.
Baker 2 makes cakes, but does not put offensive writing on any of them.

In the case of bakery 1 they did not even discuss the decorations on the cake, so claiming that the writing or decorations were offensive doesn't work.

In the case of bakery 2 the customer was offered a cake and the means to write his message, but he refused.

Not the same at all.

Correction, one bakery was asked to bake a wedding cake for a same sex wedding. The customer was not refused service based on sexual orientation. The baker declined to bake a wedding cake that would be part of a same sex marriage. The baker states that he would be violating his religiously held beliefs by participating (by providing a wedding cake he created) in something that was against his religion.

You are correct, these are completely different issues and the second one that is the basis of this thread was a stupid stunt aimed at trying to prove some non-existent hypocrisy.

The issue that is the basis of this thread is that the customer is claiming that his rights are being violated. What rights? Religious rights? What religious doctrine teaches that a followers must proclaim their beliefs on bakery goods? Perhaps it could be argued that his right to free speech was violated, but then again that fails because the baker offered to provide the basic cake and the frosting etc., necessary for the customer to complete the job.

In the first case, there was not option for the baker to provide the service without violating his constitutional right to freely exercise his religious faith without government imposition.

Very different issues.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Clown School
9,999 posts, read 4,259,899 times
Reputation: 11553
I would've done their cake, and instead of an 'X' on top, put a heart.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Oceania
8,623 posts, read 5,922,920 times
Reputation: 8318
Quote:
Originally Posted by apexgds View Post
First of all, it wasn't a "gay bakery" ... secondly, they were more than happy to make them a cake. They weren't willing to put a hateful message on the cake.

No hypocrisy here.

Neither are movies,TV or the press. As openly hypocritical as all mass media is, they are never accused of such. Rather, they are merely exercising their 1st amendment rights.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 07:06 PM
 
9,323 posts, read 5,823,809 times
Reputation: 7569
This is beyond stupid. These are private businesses. They should be able to write or decorate as they see fit. I wouldn't be surprised if someone proposes a federal law banning messages on cakes now.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
19,463 posts, read 9,793,905 times
Reputation: 7551
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
Correction, one bakery was asked to bake a wedding cake for a same sex wedding. The customer was not refused service based on sexual orientation. The baker declined to bake a wedding cake that would be part of a same sex marriage. The baker states that he would be violating his religiously held beliefs by participating (by providing a wedding cake he created) in something that was against his religion.

You are correct, these are completely different issues and the second one that is the basis of this thread was a stupid stunt aimed at trying to prove some non-existent hypocrisy.

The issue that is the basis of this thread is that the customer is claiming that his rights are being violated. What rights? Religious rights? What religious doctrine teaches that a followers must proclaim their beliefs on bakery goods? Perhaps it could be argued that his right to free speech was violated, but then again that fails because the baker offered to provide the basic cake and the frosting etc., necessary for the customer to complete the job.

In the first case, there was not option for the baker to provide the service without violating his constitutional right to freely exercise his religious faith without government imposition.

Very different issues.
The bakery OFFERED wedding cakes. If a seller OFFERS something for sale, then he can not discriminate based on race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation in that state.

When you get a business license and set up a business that is open to the public you have to follow the laws of the state you are operating in.

IF one can claim "religious beliefs" to get around this law, then why not use "religious beliefs" to not serve blacks, or Muslims, or women?

Even the supreme court has ruled that "religious beliefs" do not allow you to break generally applicable laws.
 
Old 01-22-2015, 07:23 PM
 
Location: A place that's too cold
4,115 posts, read 4,078,794 times
Reputation: 10149
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24 View Post
From the OP's link:

"According to Silva, the man who visited last year wanted a Bible-shaped cake, which she agreed to make.
...
She said she would make the cake, but declined to write his suggested messages on the cake, telling him she would give him icing and a pastry bag so he could write the words himself."

In the other case, the baker refused to bake the cake and turned the customers away.
This baker agreed to bake the cake and provide the means by which the customer could satisfy his request.

Where is the hypocrisy?
I do see some hypocrisy in people supporting baker #2 but not baker #1. In both instances, the customer wanted a cake that made a "statement" (that "statement" being made in actual words on cake #2, and by the fact that a wedding cake is part of celebrating the couple to be wed, in cake #1). In both instances, the baker held a strong conviction against that statement/message which the cake was conveying (with or without words).

Note: I am not saying I agree or disagree with either baker, just that I do see more similarity in the two cases than most posters here concede.
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