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Old 01-23-2015, 09:48 AM
 
2,004 posts, read 1,141,435 times
Reputation: 2904

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Yet another story about a 2-year-old getting hold of an unsecured gun and causing a death. That's been one per month for the last 3 months.

Those glove compartments have locks on them for a reason.
In that same time period, how many children died because of eating household cleansers or chemicals, parents who failed to otherwise take safety precautions for their kids or smoke in the home where children also live? No, that isn't the same thing but either you are for solving all of those problems or there is just one agenda, anti gun. Where is the outcry for all those other just as deadly issues? Where are the threads about it? Silence
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Old 01-23-2015, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,011 posts, read 7,096,095 times
Reputation: 12467
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitmom View Post
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people".
By that logic, either the toddler or his parents are murderers.
We had a close call in 1983 with our own toddlers, in my uncle's home. His gun was in a latched box under his bed and our toddlers found it before you could say jack-squat. I was just vigilant enough to avert a tragedy by a few minutes; when I realized my toddlers had been quiet beyond their normal 90 seconds or so, I went looking for them and they were just then pulling the gun out of the box. I died a thousand deaths that day, it still chills my backbone.

Still, DH and I continue to own guns because that's how we were raised. He has a CCW (I declined), but we are way over the gun worship in this country that enables events like this. We don't have young children, grandchildren, nieces or nephews in our family who can come within a country mile of our weapons. If we did, we'd give up the weapons in a heartbeat.
If we thought giving up our weapons altogether would reduce events like this, we'd so. Increasingly we're moving closer every day to that viewpoint. We live in a gun-sick society.
" His gun was in a latched box under his bed and our toddlers found it before you could say jack-squat."

I have a MAJOR problem with that statement! You are saying that your children have not been taught proper "visitor manners", and you allow them to run wild in someone else's home, and it is Uncle's fault that they went into HIS bedroom, got under HIS bed, opened HIS latched box and pulled out a gun?
Sorry, I don't buy it!
I expect kids to be "housebroken". I do not "childproof" my home. Kids are NOT allowed in my bedroom, my den, or my wife's craft room, unless directly supervised the whole time they are there.
Kids who have not been taught that there are limits, as your kids apparently are (or were) would not be welcome in my home!
Yes, the death of a child is a tragedy. IMO, the biggest tragedy is that the child was not taught proper limits. I can hear it now; "Oh, he is only 2 years old, he doesn't need to be taught about guns, and that he should leave them alo...BANG!"
Yes, it happens all too often. Yes, I blame the parents. NOT for having a gun, but for failing to properly TEACH their children!
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Old 01-23-2015, 09:55 AM
 
2,004 posts, read 1,141,435 times
Reputation: 2904
In 2013 41,000 people were poisoned in the US. Where is the outrage as we see about guns? Most of these poisonings were and are preventable. 41,000 in one year. Poisoning have tripled over the last 30 years. A child is killed in an accident involving a gun, national news, a child poisoned and dies, the local back page of the paper. Poisoning Stats where is the call for prosecutions when a child is poisoned?
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Old 01-23-2015, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Vermont
5,439 posts, read 14,339,187 times
Reputation: 2609
2 year olds are supposed to understand house rules?

Going back to the owner. .... He had both a kid and a gun and wasn't paying attention to EITHER of them - all he had to do was pay attention to ONE OR THE OTHER and the kid would be alive today.
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Old 01-23-2015, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Central Florida
3,064 posts, read 1,576,211 times
Reputation: 10272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraven View Post
" His gun was in a latched box under his bed and our toddlers found it before you could say jack-squat."

I have a MAJOR problem with that statement! You are saying that your children have not been taught proper "visitor manners", and you allow them to run wild in someone else's home, and it is Uncle's fault that they went into HIS bedroom, got under HIS bed, opened HIS latched box and pulled out a gun?
Sorry, I don't buy it!
I expect kids to be "housebroken". I do not "childproof" my home. Kids are NOT allowed in my bedroom, my den, or my wife's craft room, unless directly supervised the whole time they are there.
Kids who have not been taught that there are limits, as your kids apparently are (or were) would not be welcome in my home!
Yes, the death of a child is a tragedy. IMO, the biggest tragedy is that the child was not taught proper limits. I can hear it now; "Oh, he is only 2 years old, he doesn't need to be taught about guns, and that he should leave them alo...BANG!"
Yes, it happens all too often. Yes, I blame the parents. NOT for having a gun, but for failing to properly TEACH their children!
Do you, or have you ever had kids? Kids can get into things behind your back in seconds. Kids are not robots. They will usually behave if taught properly but all kids do sneaky things. If you had a child did he ever fall out of a tree? Did he ever sneak off without you knowing, into another room? If he did, by your own admission, shame on you.
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Old 01-23-2015, 10:10 AM
 
Location: NJ
22,745 posts, read 28,597,649 times
Reputation: 14640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Year2525 View Post
People are looking for people to kill only when necessary? Can you prove that or is that just more dramatics? I know a lot of people who own guns, none if them are looking for someone to kill, fir any reason. My comment was designed to draw out the concern for children that hides an anti-gun agenda. Success.
haha, you are trying to get something out of me that isnt there. im not anti-gun, im a big fan of gun ownership. you were just so desperate to pick an argument with someone who is anti-gun you jumped on my statement that you wrongly perceived as anti-gun. guns are for killing people. those people who you know that own guns, most of them probably are primarily interested in those guns for killing people when necessary. that's self defense. it doesnt mean that those people have the guns because they want to kill people.
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Old 01-23-2015, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,869 posts, read 13,654,914 times
Reputation: 8987
I'm more interested in killing birds than people.

But I see gun accidents like this: If the moron gun owner manages to kill himself or herself (cleaning the gun, for instance), file it under "did society a favor." If the moron gun owner places a loaded gun in the path of a toddler, that's slightly more heart wrenching. But lets face it, the apple isn't going to fall far from the tree. The kid was likely to grow up to be another moron, anyway.

When the moron gun owner places a loaded gun in the path of a toddler, and the toddler shoots the NEIGHBOR'S kid (who was going to grow up to be a Rhodes Scholar), now it's a tragedy. The main problem with morons with guns is when they spill over into the non-moron subset of the American population. Doesn't matter which moron -- the gang moron with a gun, the drug-addled moron with a gun, or just your basic suburban or rural moron. If they only shot each other, America's gun problem could eventually be solved by attrition.

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Old 01-23-2015, 10:35 AM
 
3,279 posts, read 3,763,606 times
Reputation: 6149
Quote:
Originally Posted by budlight View Post
Do you, or have you ever had kids? Kids can get into things behind your back in seconds. Kids are not robots. They will usually behave if taught properly but all kids do sneaky things. If you had a child did he ever fall out of a tree? Did he ever sneak off without you knowing, into another room? If he did, by your own admission, shame on you.
To an extent, I think sometimes children are the cause of what happens to them, or it truly is simply something that should be regarded as an unfortunate accident. If such children would LISTEN and OBEY versus being so stubborn and pig-headed, then sometimes stuff like this wouldn't happen.

Yes, I realize this child is 2, so it may be asking a bit much given the child's age, and no I am not saying they DESERVED what happened, but come on--the gun wasn't laying around on the coffee table. To an extent, if it's to where a child goes out of their way to go after something that, one would hope, they were told to leave alone (you certainly would hope these parents did that), then to an extent maybe what happens to them is the natural outcome of their stubbornness. And again, in this case, that may not be appropriate given that the child was only 2, but in general, I think there's merit to this stance.

I have memories to tell along these lines which, I think, are somewhat supportive of this stance.

I'm in my 40s. As a child, my parents had 2 weapons in their closet, a .22 semi-auto rifle and a single-shot 12 gauge shotgun, both bought from Sears I believe. These weapons were on ground level, loaded and ready to go (other than the safety probably being engaged). The only "security" besides the safety was that my mother's clothes were in front of them, to where they weren't as visible, but I knew they were there. The closet didn't lock, nor did their bedroom.

Simply enough, I was told "stay out of here, I catch you in here I'll burn your tail up." That was it. Guess what--I never went in there like it was no big deal. The few times I did, I had the undying sense in my conscience that I was doing wrong, and if I was caught--yes, my tail got burned up good. Not only that, if a given aunt or such caught me, THEY'D burn my tail up THEMSELVES or tell my mother who then would do so. They made it clear to me that if something was broken or such (in terms of other belongings) it was MY fault for disobeying, NOT my mother's fault for not locking her door, and I have no doubt the response would've been the same had I used the gun for something bad such as shooting an animal etc. They would NOT have blamed my mother for not locking things up, they'd blamed ME for disobeying.

I was EXPECTED to do as I was told, no one gave 2 cents how I felt or that I was curious, and they let it be known in no uncertain terms "I don't care how you feel or what you like, do as you're told--or else." As far as I'm concerned, they were RIGHT, too.

By contrast, I recall a story years ago about a 12 year old who killed himself with his parent's gun, and the parents had locked their bedroom door, put bars on the windows, locked the weapons in locked drawers, and if I recall correctly the weapons were unloaded and the bullets stored in a separate drawer, again all locked--and the 12-year old overcame all of that and STILL killed himself, and people STILL blamed the parents despite all they had done in trying to secure their weapons. That's ridiculous.

Now, granted, in my case, I was probably older than 2, and I personally am of the mentality of having weapons way out of the way and not "cocked, locked, and ready to rock" as it were, even putting spent shell casings in the chamber so that you KNOW there's no live bullet in the chamber. I'm all for prosecuting for negligence when you're talking about loaded pistols on the coffee table, etc. However, I think there is a point reached where parents have done reasonably enough and shouldn't be expected to live like prisoners in their own home because their child can't do as they're told and leave things alone, especially when the parents have "redirected" by providing suitable alternatives for them to fulfill their exploring tendencies.
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Old 01-23-2015, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,588,323 times
Reputation: 24548
I was a child in a house with guns in the closet. I knew they were there and when I got physically big enough to shoot I was taught how to shoot them safely.
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Old 01-23-2015, 11:02 AM
 
Location: NJ
22,745 posts, read 28,597,649 times
Reputation: 14640
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
If the moron gun owner places a loaded gun in the path of a toddler, that's slightly more heart wrenching. But lets face it, the apple isn't going to fall far from the tree. The kid was likely to grow up to be another moron, anyway.
its amazing to me that my posts are considered offensive by many people
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