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Old 01-23-2015, 03:10 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
2,095 posts, read 1,879,515 times
Reputation: 2495

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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
It's the parents' own fault for having a gun, for leaving it in the glove compartment of a car and for leaving a two year old with reach of the gun.

You place your gun in an under-seat safe? I can understand guns for hunting but if you can fit it under the seat, I don't think it's a hunting gun. Sounds more like a killing people gun.
On this same say in America approximately 185 people used a firearm to prevent bodily harm or death to themselves or their loved ones. This estimate is brought to you by the Violence Prevention Center, the largest anti-gun organization in the country. Other estimates range as high as 1,000,000 defensive uses of guns each year, which is an average of over 2,700 per day.

This is why we have guns. You are free to remain defenseless.

Dave
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Old 01-23-2015, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,594 posts, read 9,424,935 times
Reputation: 9198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Year2525 View Post
Same post you run out over and over fir every gun related thread. How about all the children who swallow household cleaners and poison themselves every year? That is routine too right?
I am really ashamed for you that this is all you have. Does it really need to be explained that drain cleaners, swimming pools, cars, medicine and lots of other things very harmful to curious children have beneficial purposes that make them worth the risk to have around. Not just children get killed by cars, medicine and swimming pools! They pose a significant risk to humanity period.

I am going to go way out on a limb and offer that the parents that owned that gun did not buy it so their young child could kill himself. Possibly they thought it might one day protect their young child from death. Not only were they wrong, but thousands of other people who think like them make the same fatal mistake. Here's the kicker. A car is not meant to kill people. It can, but that is not its purpose! The purpose of a gun is to kill people. If it does not, it has failed. Cars could not be banned without causing a great deal of collateral misery. Guns could be banned right now and the only collateral damage would be to the manufacturers and purveyers thereof.

We know, that guns could go away and the streets of America would not immediately turn into killing fields wet with the blood of innocents as the Mongol Hordes run rampant, raping and pillaging without mercy because there are places in the world very much like America except that they have gun controls in place and overall crime is not more than here but deaths due to the intentional or accidental firing of a handgun are not a statistically significant cause of death.

Whatever the total number of accidental deaths is, if guns were banned, it would be a couple ten thousand fewer cases per year less! You don't think that is worth it? That would be like erradicating the Flu. So... nice try but... FAIL. Sell that somewhere else. Like a thread that I am not active in.

H
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Old 01-23-2015, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Ohio
14,311 posts, read 12,569,286 times
Reputation: 19017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
I am really ashamed for you that this is all you have. Does it really need to be explained that drain cleaners, swimming pools, cars, medicine and lots of other things very harmful to curious children have beneficial purposes that make them worth the risk to have around. Not just children get killed by cars, medicine and swimming pools! They pose a significant risk to humanity period.

I am going to go way out on a limb and offer that the parents that owned that gun did not buy it so their young child could kill himself. Possibly they thought it might one day protect their young child from death. Not only were they wrong, but thousands of other people who think like them make the same fatal mistake. Here's the kicker. A car is not meant to kill people. It can, but that is not its purpose! The purpose of a gun is to kill people. If it does not, it has failed. Cars could not be banned without causing a great deal of collateral misery. Guns could be banned right now and the only collateral damage would be to the manufacturers and purveyers thereof.

We know, that guns could go away and the streets of America would not immediately turn into killing fields wet with the blood of innocents as the Mongol Hordes run rampant, raping and pillaging without mercy because there are places in the world very much like America except that they have gun controls in place and overall crime is not more than here but deaths due to the intentional or accidental firing of a handgun are not a statistically significant cause of death.

Whatever the total number of accidental deaths is, if guns were banned, it would be a couple ten thousand fewer cases per year less! You don't think that is worth it? That would be like erradicating the Flu. So... nice try but... FAIL. Sell that somewhere else. Like a thread that I am not active in.

H
Backyard swimming pools could be banned. A swimming pool is a luxury, not a necessity. Need a pool for exercise?......go to the Y or a gym/club that has one. That would save the lives of approximately 800 children a year.....isn't that worth it?

And.....I would suffer collateral misery if guns were banned. I would no longer feel safe in my own home....am I not entitled to peace of mind? As a woman living alone, I would be a sitting duck. There isn't an alarm system in the world that could protect me as efficiently as a gun in my hand.
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Old 01-23-2015, 03:43 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
2,095 posts, read 1,879,515 times
Reputation: 2495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
I am really ashamed for you that this is all you have. Does it really need to be explained that drain cleaners, swimming pools, cars, medicine and lots of other things very harmful to curious children have beneficial purposes that make them worth the risk to have around. Not just children get killed by cars, medicine and swimming pools! They pose a significant risk to humanity period.

I am going to go way out on a limb and offer that the parents that owned that gun did not buy it so their young child could kill himself. Possibly they thought it might one day protect their young child from death. Not only were they wrong, but thousands of other people who think like them make the same fatal mistake. Here's the kicker. A car is not meant to kill people. It can, but that is not its purpose! The purpose of a gun is to kill people. If it does not, it has failed. Cars could not be banned without causing a great deal of collateral misery. Guns could be banned right now and the only collateral damage would be to the manufacturers and purveyers thereof.

We know, that guns could go away and the streets of America would not immediately turn into killing fields wet with the blood of innocents as the Mongol Hordes run rampant, raping and pillaging without mercy because there are places in the world very much like America except that they have gun controls in place and overall crime is not more than here but deaths due to the intentional or accidental firing of a handgun are not a statistically significant cause of death.

Whatever the total number of accidental deaths is, if guns were banned, it would be a couple ten thousand fewer cases per year less! You don't think that is worth it? That would be like erradicating the Flu. So... nice try but... FAIL. Sell that somewhere else. Like a thread that I am not active in.

H
The experience of countries that have effectively banned guns is that violence does not go way. Criminals turn to other means to prey on the weak and defenseless. Guns are an effective equalizer, and the numbers of defensive uses of guns in this country prove that point.

So, no, there would be a great deal of collateral damage if guns were banned in America. How about you peddle your victim disarmament plans somewhere else. Like a country I don't live in.

Dave
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Old 01-23-2015, 03:45 PM
 
3,720 posts, read 4,439,256 times
Reputation: 4741
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriBee62 View Post
What's a 2 year old doing alone in a car? If the kid had died of heat stroke, the parents would be charged with negligence. Use a gun and oh, this is just a "tragic accident".
Let them walk to the park alone and you have a long term relationship with child protective services until they deem you fit to parent again, without their supervision.
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Old 01-23-2015, 04:11 PM
 
2,852 posts, read 2,848,614 times
Reputation: 1172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraven View Post
Why stop there? Perhaps some of the Science Fiction writers have the right idea. Before anyone can have a child, they must be able to prove that they are mature enough, emotionally and mentally capable of raising the child and have the capability of supporting the child from birth through college.
Nah, that would be Unconstitutional!
Oh, wait...
Heinlein? Starship Troopers has an interesting idea.


But lets not stop at guns. Want a kid, prove you're fiscally able to support them.

Last edited by SilverBulletZ06; 01-23-2015 at 04:30 PM..
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Old 01-23-2015, 04:35 PM
 
17,205 posts, read 14,812,677 times
Reputation: 32777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
They were packing the car? And they didn't see the kid head for the car door, and open it? Or did they forget there was a gun in the car? WTH??!!

I guess those people weren't very attached to their kid. It sounds like they just didn't care all that much. Most parents of 2-yr-olds watch their kids like hawks
.
Yes, and accidents still happen. I'm glad all you people are perfect and never make mistakes or turn your back for a second, or can raise 2-year olds who never do anything they're not supposed to, but real people forget things, turn their backs, are distracted some of the time. Most times nothing bad happens, but once in a while it does. It doesn't make anyone bad parents or "morons" it just makes them human. At my 17 year old nephew's birthday party last year, there were 30-some people all around the pool talking, laughing, kids playing, and still in the blink of an eye the 3-year old was discovered in the pool and pulled out thankfully okay. It happens that fast, and I feel sorry for the parents and the little boy. I think people have a need to separate themselves from humanity when things like this happen...this could never happen to me because I raised my 2 year old to have good judgement, this could never happen to me because I'm not a moron...but it could happen to anyone.

Last edited by ocnjgirl; 01-23-2015 at 04:58 PM..
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Old 01-23-2015, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Florida
19,649 posts, read 8,221,517 times
Reputation: 16086
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Insane like the delusional people who think they need a gun to protect themselves from road rage lunatics and car jackers?

I don't object in principle to people owning guns or carrying them around wherever. It's just that in practice, the only people who seem to feel the need to do that have a tenuous grip on reality and live their lives in a state of wholly irrational, fear-based delusion. I don't really want guns in the hands of people who are clearly not rational human beings.
Yes--like the drunken jerk in Jacksonville who felt the need to protect himself from loud music. That's what those very crucial guns in the glove compartment are for.
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Old 01-23-2015, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Florida
19,649 posts, read 8,221,517 times
Reputation: 16086
For all the second amendment champions defending the gun and blaming it on the owner, let me tell you something you already know. Florida is full of stupid people, and many of those with guns fall into that category. And our idiot governor has signed more liberal gun laws than any other governor. But that's ok, because when there is a senseless shooting, such as the one at FSU, he 'prays' for the victims.
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Old 01-23-2015, 05:10 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
12,826 posts, read 10,199,673 times
Reputation: 11471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraven View Post
" His gun was in a latched box under his bed and our toddlers found it before you could say jack-squat."

I have a MAJOR problem with that statement! You are saying that your children have not been taught proper "visitor manners", and you allow them to run wild in someone else's home, and it is Uncle's fault that they went into HIS bedroom, got under HIS bed, opened HIS latched box and pulled out a gun?
Sorry, I don't buy it!
I expect kids to be "housebroken". I do not "childproof" my home. Kids are NOT allowed in my bedroom, my den, or my wife's craft room, unless directly supervised the whole time they are there.
Kids who have not been taught that there are limits, as your kids apparently are (or were) would not be welcome in my home!
Yes, the death of a child is a tragedy. IMO, the biggest tragedy is that the child was not taught proper limits. I can hear it now; "Oh, he is only 2 years old, he doesn't need to be taught about guns, and that he should leave them alo...BANG!"
Yes, it happens all too often. Yes, I blame the parents. NOT for having a gun, but for failing to properly TEACH their children!
I think it's obvious that you've never had kids or been around them.

Teaching a two year-old manners is a laudable and necessary task, but you are seriously delusional if you think a two year-old is going to have the same discipline and rational ethical behavior regarding property as an adult.

It's a freaking two year-old. It's likely still in diapers. Many two year-olds can't even talk well yet. Some are still figuring out how to run and go up and down stairs. Yes, parents should be on the process of teaching a two year-old about manners and limits and such... but that creature still has a lot of wild cave-baby left in it, and it takes longer than two for most kids to consistently get it.

So yes, despite parental efforts, many two year-olds are likely to be curious and play around with whatever they find, if they happen to be unsupervised. You cannot teach a two year-old to understand and respect the danger of a firearm. You may as well expect a two year-old to know how to responsibly handle a chainsaw or a Harley.

A rational adult is one who anticipates this lack of capability in most two year-olds and will therefore take care to eliminate particularly dangerous things from their access, such as guns.

Last edited by ambient; 01-23-2015 at 05:21 PM..
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