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Old 02-13-2015, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Greater NYC, USA
2,762 posts, read 2,624,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I have mixed personal experiences. I was like you, smoked a bunch as a teenager, but quit when I grew up. I had kids. My priorities changed.

But I knew other high school friends that I never would have expected to go into anything harder...but buying weed from sketchy people put them in sketchy social circles, and they tried harder things. Some of them had serious habits that they eventually kicked. This was in an area where "War on Drugs" enforcement was pretty hardcore. Here, you have home growers and medicinal card buyers who still resell on the street market, and so there are multiple markets and not everyone selling weed is also peddling harder stuff.

I don't think anyone tries weed and then, through some function of the drug, seeks harder thrills. I just think it's a matter of exposure. You get to know enough people that do something, and if you're impressionable enough you might think it's somehow OK. The "gateway drug" effect isn't what most prohibitionists think it is...if anything it's more a side effect of the black market, I think, in cases where it is a thing at all.

I, too, have known many pot users that never in their lifetimes messed with the hard stuff.
To be fair, the major contributing factor to me loosing interest in MJ around the age of 24 was my visit to Amsterdam. The local weed bought at ghettos of Newark NJ was not worth smoking after I tried what Amsterdam had to offer.
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:33 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 9,647,655 times
Reputation: 7449
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPolo View Post
To be fair, the major contributing factor to me loosing interest in MJ around the age of 24 was my visit to Amsterdam. The local weed bought at ghettos of Newark NJ was not worth smoking after I tried what Amsterdam had to offer.

See I had the opposite experience. Now I've never been to Amsterdam, but where I live in an exurb the stuff there is OK. Mid-level stuff. I got a hold of just a small sample of some hydro from Cleveland, and that stuff was some fire! No seeds, no stems, nice and fluffy! It was gooooood!
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,644 posts, read 4,902,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atalanta View Post
Are you not trying to tell people what to do ?!
No. But please quote the post or posts where I appeared to be trying to tell people what to do, other than to please leave others be.

I'm asking you to do your thing and let others do their thing. Do you think that is trying to tell you what to do?
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Self explanatory
10,239 posts, read 4,123,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPolo View Post
To be fair, the major contributing factor to me loosing interest in MJ around the age of 24 was my visit to Amsterdam. The local weed bought at ghettos of Newark NJ was not worth smoking after I tried what Amsterdam had to offer.
I lived in Amsterdam for a little over 2 years. That experience helped shift my view as far as the issues at hand that the USA is facing now.

I was very impressed with the pragmatic approach the Dutch take to things in general. Specifically speaking about drugs, everyone knows about their stance on cannabis (tolerated, not legal, no harm no foul), but also they treat addicts as addicts, not criminals. The focus on reform, not incarceration. They have made it so marijuana is such a blasť affair. When you lift the "taboo", you kind of lift the factor of "if it's outlawed, it must be something worth trying" attitude.

I also think a lot of the prohibitionist don't realize that in other parts of the world, all drugs are completely legal, and the sky hasn't fallen. Hell, even in North Korea you can purchase bags of mj in open markets.

I'm all for reformation of the laws on cannabis. The prohibitionists are standing on the wrong side of history. If you don't want to consume cannabis, don't. No one is forcing you too. Simple as that.

Last edited by Old Town FFX; 02-13-2015 at 12:07 PM..
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:28 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 9,647,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Town FFX View Post
I lived in Amsterdam for a little over 2 years. That experience helped shift my view as far as the issues at hand that the USA is facing now.

I was very impressed with the pragmatic approach the Dutch take to things in general. Specifically speaking about drugs, everyone knows about their stance on cannabis (tolerated, not legal, no harm no foul), but also they treat addicts as addicts, not criminals. The focus on reform, not incarceration. They have made it so marijuana is such a blasť affair. When you life the "taboo", you kind of lift the factor of "if it's outlawed, it must be something worth trying" attitude.

I also think a lot of the prohibitionist don't realize that in other parts of the world, all drugs are completely legal, and the sky hasn't fallen. Hell, even in North Korea you can purchase bags of mj in open markets.

I'm all for reformation of the laws on cannabis. The prohibitionists are standing on the wrong side of history. If you don't want to consume cannabis, don't. No one is forcing you too. Simple as that.

Growing up, the stuff was always around, so I never really thought of it as "taboo." My parents had friends that smoked weed. At gatherings, they would make sure the kids weren't around, but other than that, it wasn't a big deal. I had family members (some of my step dad's family) that smoked weed, and at Christmas time when my step aunt would crowd 100 people into her little ranch home, there were people in the back bedroom toking up. My mom when I went to go back there, would be like "where you going? Don't go in that room!" I was like, "mom I'm going to the bathroom!" Which I truly was. Pot was very abundant and common when I was in high school, and in college as well. And, every single time I went to a Browns game, you'd get a whiff of it, be it by the food court or the stands where someone had a little one-hitter, or in the bathrooms where they were passing around a joint.

And you are correct that history has shown that prohibition was an utter failure. I understand if people don't want to partake, and no one is forcing them to do so. But, don't stop others, and then use government force to restrict others from doing so, because you don't like it.
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:01 PM
 
463 posts, read 245,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Town FFX View Post
but also they treat addicts as addicts, not criminals. The focus on reform, not incarceration. They have made it so marijuana is such a blasť affair. When you life the "taboo", you kind of lift the factor of "if it's outlawed, it must be something worth trying" attitude.
I think this is a bigger factor than most people give it credit for. I know when I was a kid, anything taboo interested me. Then in high school, more kids were attracted to pot, instead of booze, for that same reason. And, since the illegality added risk, it was even more glamorous. This has not changed, kids today that are into experimenting still feel the same way.

Another first hand story is one related to synthetic marijuana. A guy tried it, told his friend about it, and his friend wasn't very interested: "If it's legal it can't be that strong." As soon as the guy told his friend "Oh no, they are thinking about making it illegal", his friend's ears perked up and suddenly he was interested.

Many times prohibition has opposite than the intended effect.
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:22 PM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 9,647,655 times
Reputation: 7449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vistaian View Post
I think this is a bigger factor than most people give it credit for. I know when I was a kid, anything taboo interested me. Then in high school, more kids were attracted to pot, instead of booze, for that same reason. And, since the illegality added risk, it was even more glamorous. This has not changed, kids today that are into experimenting still feel the same way.

Another first hand story is one related to synthetic marijuana. A guy tried it, told his friend about it, and his friend wasn't very interested: "If it's legal it can't be that strong." As soon as the guy told his friend "Oh no, they are thinking about making it illegal", his friend's ears perked up and suddenly he was interested.

Many times prohibition has opposite than the intended effect.

Legal or not (and it's banned in my state) I've heard nothing good about the synthetic crap! I wouldn't recommend it. It isn't the same as the real thing.
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Colorado
9,744 posts, read 6,277,070 times
Reputation: 17564
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan View Post
Legal or not (and it's banned in my state) I've heard nothing good about the synthetic crap! I wouldn't recommend it. It isn't the same as the real thing.
We have heard stories about soldiers actually being hospitalized after using the "spice" or synthetic stuff. But I have no idea how many users actually experience dangerous effects or not, as it's impossible to know with the military if they are being factual or just warning soldiers off of something they don't want them doing, with scare tactics.

There is, as of this time, no test to determine if someone has used "spice" and it's not illegal. So of course it has been of interest to many of the young guys in the Army.

I don't really like the idea of unknown synthetic stuff. We know what proper weed, that isn't cut with anything, does. I don't trust anything made by a kitchen chemist. Heck I don't trust half the chemicals that are produced in labs for our consumption.
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,644 posts, read 4,902,469 times
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Synthetic cannabinoids have (had) a lot of promise. JWH-018, JWH-081 and others. If you could control for molecular structure, purity, dosage used and dosage of efficacy, clean ROA, etc. you could perform research to build knowledge and investigate efficacy in treating various conditions. JWH-018 I believe (at work so can't verify) was actually starting to show some promise.

THC is not necessarily the end-all, be-all. Neither is CBD. It is entirely possible there is another molecule that binds to cannabinoid receptors in a vastly more effective way than the various cannabinoids found in natural hemp.

The problem is that you can't control those things when you order it in the form of incense pouches. In the "incense" potions (Spice, K2, all the popular code names), you have some unknown cannabinoid(s) sprayed in some completely unknown concentration on to some unknown filler plant material. Some of these cannabinoids, by the way, can be 10 or 100 times as potent by volume as others of them. And the only real ROA available when the product is delivered that way is to combust the filler material and inhale the smoke. There could also be other constituents in that plant matter not intended for combustion and inhalation at all.

So this stuff was plainly Russian Roullette when delivered this way. And predictably, when people take something unknown at some completely unknown dosage, problems ensue. So there were lots of problems. And then the crackdowns came. And now pure, well-documented synthetic powder cannabinoids are impossible to obtain legally and impossible to do legal research on. So now we'll probably never know.

I would never touch anything like that (the incense packs). But lab-quality synthetic cannabinoids where you're precisely controlling for all the variables? I would have tried that.
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Greater NYC, USA
2,762 posts, read 2,624,866 times
Reputation: 1707
A very valid point has been raised !

It easier for a high-school kid to get schedule 1 drugs then alcohol. Drug dealers don't ask for ID, while legidimate bsuiness men do...
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