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Old 01-27-2015, 11:57 AM
 
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I've listened to every prohibitionist talking point imaginable for years, long before this was a mainstream political issue, and none of them hold water logically. Every falling-sky prophecy of theirs has failed to come true where cannabis has been legalized, and they've been grasping at straws since.
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Old 01-27-2015, 12:32 PM
 
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You can learn everything there is to know about prohibitionists argument from Mr Mackey


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh7l8dx-h8M
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Old 01-27-2015, 12:45 PM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 9,660,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vistaian View Post
I tried listening to that show, and couldn't stomach it once the first caller started talking.

The problem with people who have no experience with cannabis is that all they have to go on is what they have heard and/or read about it. Almost 80 years of prohibition, and the lies that support the wisdom of prohibition, has created an ignorance level that is off the charts. As someone with 44 years of firsthand experience I just can't listen to it anymore. These people talk about it like they know what they are talking about, just like the original wave of prohibitionists did.

Did you know that the original wave of prohibitionists taught everyone that it caused insanity, murder, and death? If you don't believe me, watch the movie "Reefer Madness". That movie is literally a comedy today, but when it was released it was dead serious.

I hope you prohibitionists don't believe that using cannabis causes insanity, murder, and death. If so, that means you admit those early claims are fabrications. Then why won't you consider that it is possible that most of the other things you've been taught about it are fabrications also?

Prohibiting pot with the consequences of a felony record, prison time, loss of career, kids taken away, etc. under the guise of "We are just protecting you from a harmful substance" is like saying "If you touch a flame it might hurt your hand, so we are making it against the law. If you do it we are going to cut your arm off, that way you can't hurt your hand anymore".

Insanity.
It's downright immoral if you ask me! Prohibition has destroyed way more lives than the substance itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I've actually written a few college papers on the history of pot prohibition. It's interesting stuff. A true tale of "follow the money" and sensationalist propaganda...and the American people bought it hook, line and sinker. Except those that had the personal experience to know better, I guess.

The drug itself has little to do with why it's illegal actually.

It was about the revenue streams of W.R. Hearst's timber and paper industry in the Pacific NW and Dupont's new product, nylon. You know...the same nylon that is in all of your clothing now? The same nylon that a large percentage of rope you can buy is also made of? There were competing interests developing more efficient ways of processing hemp fibers that would have revolutionized the textile industries. Highly sustainable and renewable resources that could fill all of our needs for the traditional hemp rope as well as paper, fabrics, eventually even building materials and so much more. But this would have rocked the financial foundations of some very powerful leaders of industry.

How to get rid of hemp?

Demonize cannabis. All of it.

They did not just use the crazy assertions contained in Reefer Madness like violence and insanity...many of the claims were straight up racist as heck. When a man is allowed to stand on the floor of Congress and explain that "marihuana" will make their respectable white wives and daughters run off with Mexicans and black jazz musicians...and that is exactly the kind of crazy talk that pushed fear of this drug and the first laws against it.

Of course in recent years all too many industries stand to profit from prohibition. The for-profit prison system for starters, as well as all of the same textile industries that would no longer be needed, alcohol, pharma (and that one is HUGE) all the way down to reduction of asset forfeiture by your local cop shop and less reason to do things like "stop and frisk" of young black men.

Practically every reason for MJ prohibition is rooted in corruption at some very high levels of society. And almost nothing to do with it being a "bad scary drug that dopers will get all dopetastic on--to the detriment of THE CHILDREN." People who think that are still happily being led down the garden path by big gov and big biz.
Good stuff Sonic! Follow the money indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vistaian View Post
I'm sorry, I don't agree. There is a big difference between opinions and facts. In this case, that difference is resulting in people having their lives, livelihoods, and families destroyed every single day as long as this war continues.

But, it all falls on deaf ears anyway, doesn't it? Here you have a poster communicating with you that has 44 years of direct experience with the plant, which was then followed up by another poster that has written college papers on the subject. Yet to prohibitionists expertise means nothing.

So Sonic, as wonderful as your post was, it was a complete waste of time, as was mine. It reinforces what I already knew: There is no amount of logic, experience, evidence, or expertise that will even slightly change the opinion of a prohibitionist. Not even the slightest movement of the needle.

Even though the days of the war on drugs are numbered, I give up.
I don't care about changing their mind. What I do want them to do is mind their own business, and stop intruding on the private lives of others via prohibition and government use of force to enforce it, because they don't agree with it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfre81 View Post
I've listened to every prohibitionist talking point imaginable for years, long before this was a mainstream political issue, and none of them hold water logically. Every falling-sky prophecy of theirs has failed to come true where cannabis has been legalized, and they've been grasping at straws since.
I think it's just a matter of time before the federal ban on cannabis is repealed. In short, they're fighting a losing battle, and history has shown that prohibition is a failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado^ View Post
You can learn everything there is to know about prohibitionists argument from Mr Mackey


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh7l8dx-h8M

MMMM-KAY!
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Old 01-27-2015, 01:58 PM
 
685 posts, read 532,666 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
"Gov. John Hickenlooper, a Democrat who opposed the 2012 decision by voters to make pot legal"

Wow, that's huge news! A politician who was against something from the very beginning is still against it after it passes! That's crazy! Next you'll be telling me John Boehner is still against the Affordable Care Act!
Without proper "project planning," you'll end up with massive problems. CO seems pretty organized for this. So what if the governor is still against it (I saw the link where he changes his mind but I don't know if he really did since it is bringing in huge tax profits for the state) ... rhetoric anyone?

A poster said it would be easier if legalized at the federal level. Maybe but look at the fiasco the ACA became. Look at the craziness that happened creating a federal fund with a manager to give money to people caught in NYC during 9/11. What is making it easier elsewhere is some states are finally realizing the ridiculous expense of tossing poor people who had a small amount of pot on them and were tossed in a privatized (expensive) prison causing overcrowding and worse. At least in NC, if you have 1/2 an ounce or less you're fined $200 and let off.

So, if the governor is against it, he has the power to work with his government to correct the issues and let the other states see it as a model and move on.
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Old 01-27-2015, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Colorado
9,848 posts, read 6,314,355 times
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Honestly I think they should de-schedule it at the Federal level, the feds should just put up their hands and take a step back on this. Let the STATES pass their own laws regarding pot. If the citizens of a given state don't want it around, fine. If they do, fine. Let it be like gambling, like fireworks, like how some states have different liquor laws. Will residents still drive across the border, and bring it back with them? Yeah. Probably. No less than Iowa residents cross into Missouri for those great big warehouses full of fireworks that are right off the highway 2 minutes into Missouri, you KNOW they're not there to sell to their own state.

But...

If an Iowa state trooper pulls you over and sees in plain view, a pile of fireworks on your back seat, you better get ready to pay the price. Probably a fat fine, at the least. Those states that don't like weed and want to continue the war on drugs, well, they can at least use it to generate some revenue, although the tax revenue from states like CO are probably gonna make it look like chump change.
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Old 01-27-2015, 03:14 PM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 9,660,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Honestly I think they should de-schedule it at the Federal level, the feds should just put up their hands and take a step back on this. Let the STATES pass their own laws regarding pot. If the citizens of a given state don't want it around, fine. If they do, fine. Let it be like gambling, like fireworks, like how some states have different liquor laws. Will residents still drive across the border, and bring it back with them? Yeah. Probably. No less than Iowa residents cross into Missouri for those great big warehouses full of fireworks that are right off the highway 2 minutes into Missouri, you KNOW they're not there to sell to their own state.

But...

If an Iowa state trooper pulls you over and sees in plain view, a pile of fireworks on your back seat, you better get ready to pay the price. Probably a fat fine, at the least. Those states that don't like weed and want to continue the war on drugs, well, they can at least use it to generate some revenue, although the tax revenue from states like CO are probably gonna make it look like chump change.

I support states rights, and think the feds need to repeal the ban. Now having said that, it doesn't mean I would support my state keeping it illegal, and think it would be stupid for them to continue to do so after the federal ban was repealed. But keeping the government smaller on all levels is easier to control and hold those that we elect accountable.
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Old 01-27-2015, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Colorado
9,848 posts, read 6,314,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan View Post
I support states rights, and think the feds need to repeal the ban. Now having said that, it doesn't mean I would support my state keeping it illegal, and think it would be stupid for them to continue to do so after the federal ban was repealed. But keeping the government smaller on all levels is easier to control and hold those that we elect accountable.
Yes.

And the simple desire for people to be free to make their own choices with less government meddling (along of course with the tax money) was a huge reason that even many non-users here in CO wanted it to become legal.

Those of us that didn't do it before, generally still don't. Those who do now, generally did before. Just now won't get locked up by the State for it.
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Old 01-27-2015, 03:58 PM
 
5,917 posts, read 4,073,720 times
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How many casual to frequent users really truly go to jail for simple possession/use?

Admittedly...anecdotal...but despite living in LA in general and somehow in my personal life knowing dozens upon dozens of unabashed stoners I know zero who have been hauled to jail in the 20 years I've been here (LA).
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Old 01-27-2015, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Colorado
9,848 posts, read 6,314,355 times
Reputation: 17756
Quote:
Originally Posted by elhelmete View Post
How many casual to frequent users really truly go to jail for simple possession/use?

Admittedly...anecdotal...but despite living in LA in general and somehow in my personal life knowing dozens upon dozens of unabashed stoners I know zero who have been hauled to jail in the 20 years I've been here (LA).
https://www.aclu.org/criminal-law-re...rrests-numbers
Quote:
According to the ACLU’s original analysis, marijuana arrests now account for over half of all drug arrests in the United States. Of the 8.2 million marijuana arrests between 2001 and 2010, 88% were for simply having marijuana. Nationwide, the arrest data revealed one consistent trend: significant racial bias. Despite roughly equal usage rates, Blacks are 3.73 times more likely than whites to be arrested for marijuana.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/29/op...ests.html?_r=0

Crime, Arrests, and US Law Enforcement | Drug War Facts

^ Scroll down to the table for some data. In 2013, just over 40% of drug arrests were for possession of marijuana.

Where is normal? The highest rates of marijuana arrests - The Washington Post

Quote:
In 2012, one person was arrested every 48 seconds for possession of marijuana in the United States.
The 5 Worst States to Get Busted With Pot | Alternet

^ A must read if you don't think people get treated badly for being caught with weed...maybe not in your state, but there are some states where even a little bit will get you put in prison, maybe for a very long time.
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Old 01-27-2015, 04:51 PM
 
7,497 posts, read 9,299,705 times
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Hickenpooper.
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