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It's how you ask the questions. I do support State Rights, State Rights is my view on Gun Control for instance. But I am far from being a gun owner.
I believe that it is the job of the government to feed the widows and the orphans, so a medical system where poor have access to quality medical care and middle class that does not have sell their nest eggs when they get sick is what sounds right to me.
Online tests aside, the way I understand it is a diamond shaped diagram. This was how I learned about it in college anyways (a private and semi-conservative business college.)
Top or bottom corners of the diamond:
Libertarianism-- Wants minimal government interference and the most possible freedoms for the people. Believes in a small central government and more state and local rights to make rules for people to live by, based on the wishes of the population. Prefers free market economy over government market manipulation. Favors low taxes and fewer public "programs." Often suspicious of the stated aims of politicians, believes that if leaders are allowed to "redistribute wealth" they will redistribute a fair chunk right into their own pockets. Let people make their own choices and live with whatever consequences arise, unless or until they harm another. A libertarian will often be anti prohibition, pro choice, pro marriage equality (or wants the gov. out of marriage entirely), anti tax, anti entitlement, pro gun freedoms, and often feels that mainstream politics tramples the Constitution. Stereotype: Ted Nugent, Ron Paul
Socialist-- Opposite of Libertarian. Wants more government regulation of pretty much everything. Is in favor of high taxes, many programs to support lower income people, thereby "robbing the rich to help the poor," official government religions and philosophies and large controls of media are often hallmarks of a Socialist nation, but not always. The government provides such things as health care, and heavily regulates markets. The government will tell you what is and is not OK, as far as ethical issues are concerned, as well as controlling your money, and as many other aspects of life as possible. While things like free healthcare and education are a lure, one must be able to trust those who are collecting our earned wealth, to use it in ways that actually benefit society. Stereotype: China.
Right corner:
Conservative-- Stands for moral socialism and fiscal libertarianism for the most part (some exceptions.) Wants to dictate things like religion/philosophy, sexual/reproductive practices, drug policy, etc but wants low taxation and less regulation of markets. People must be told how to be "good" but leave my money alone. Stereotype: Rich old Christian white dudes.
Left corner:
Liberal-- Stands for moral libertarianism and fiscal socialism for the most part. Favors wealth redistribution (high taxes, many programs) and large government regulation of business. But more in favor of personal freedoms and "live and let live" in terms of sex, drugs, etc. A big exception to the lifestyle freedoms and tolerance liberals espouse, is gun control. Liberals do not traditionally like guns, or feel that citizens need the freedom to bear them. Stereotype: Blacks, women, and hippies/hipsters.
Understand that you can be part one and part another, there is some overlap. Understand also that there is often a lack of understanding of what these labels are supposed to mean (the Tea Party is often not so much Libertarian as Conservative, and plugs itself as either or both, for instance.) Also, one cannot (in my opinion) trust a politician, especially a powerful one backed by big money, to uphold the supposed ideals of his/her party. And historically, Republicans weren't always conservative and Democrats weren't always liberal.
Many "conservatives" who support legalization are actually more ideological Libertarians. And in fact, supporting legalization but also supporting taxation thereof, is more of a Liberal standpoint than it is a Libertarian one.
Also, notmeofficer forgot to mention one of the great old social ills of the marihuana. All those white women running off with the black jazz musicians...it apparently turns proper ladies into sax crazed lunatics! Arson, murder and reefer madness oh my!
But here in Colorado, we're doing just fine man...
Oh, and I cannot believe you played the "it hurts the environment" card. Do you have even the slightest idea what would happen if we cut back the petrochemical industry in favor of industrial hemp? And maybe if it were all legal, aboveboard agriculture, you would not have people trying to sneak into the National Forests to grow it in hiding, hm? Pot/hemp hurts the Redwoods...ha! why don't you tell it to the descendents of William Randolph Hearst.
Nice Sonic! And yes, I tend to be in the first category when it comes to political ideology. Also, I'd love to see hemp used for industrial purposes once again for textiles, as well as exploring as a possible fuel source. Given the many uses of cannabis, and it's cousin hemp it is extremely immoral to prohibit utilizing it to its full potential! God put it here for a reason!
If you are telling me directly to my face that since I am a cannabis user that I lie, cheat, and steal, then I am officially offended. You have no basis to say that, other than selfish protection of your job and its marijuana arrest related perks, and it might even result in the removal of your post.
He wasn't saying it directly to your face, given the arrogance you seem to hold I can see why you would say that.
You have NO clue what police officers see. They see into a different world the common citizen cannot even fathom.
Your continues disrespect for Police Officers and the law is really sad.
You're right about one thing, I am not going to even bother to try to respond the other flimsy points made in your ludicrous post. Except that almost every single one has either already been shot full of holes (no pun intended), or that they will completely disappear once sane laws are in place.
Again, arrogance, anger, and bitterness
Please, everyone keep in mind this post came from a law enforcement officer, one who obviously has a stake in keeping these insane laws in place.
Oh pleeeaase, give it up!
I will not waste time responding to any more of this officer's insane posts in the futureIs that a promise??!!. Someone else will have to pick up the fight at this point. Or, not. It doesn't really matter since the war on drugs has already been lost (Thank God in Heaven!).
Walks away, shaking head... ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan
Uh-huh.You also seem to forget that some of the most creative, intelligent and innovative people throughout the course of time consumed cannabis (even some of the founders of this nation) unless of course you think that they were all degenerates as well?Oh really, you lived and saw first hand back then and throughout history??I understand why you feel threatened by ending prohibition, as it could potentially hurt your wallet.Oh my, really you too have no respect for Police OfficersHey, the cartels feel the same way. Oh well!Oh yeah, you have been with them and interviewing them or something??!! T Now, if someone's actions cause harm to another individual, you have my support! If not, then LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE!!! Yes, pot smokers can have an ill effect on others in society
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vistaian
Truth is truth.. Refusing to see or accept it is something those who have a career in law enforcement is sadly commonplace..
I have opened up on this thread like I have in no other thread, trying to show people like this the truth. One thing that is blatantly obvious is them avoiding answering how I can possibly be here, be successful, and completely functional.We do not know that for sure. No one here knows you and see how you live and walk day to day. It is just your word. And apparently for you, just one's word is not credible as you attack so much others words on here:rolleyes: That is because there is no way to answer it that will not contradict their arguments, so they just ignore it.
Fortunately the freight train that is cannabis reform has left the station and has too much momentum now to stop it. Once we get to the destination of a society with sane cannabis laws, no falling sky, and an increase in productivity because of putting a stop to all of the waste of resources that are now being consumed in this war, these folks will still say that it was not the right thing to do.
I am sure I have at least planted some seeds of thought in those who might be on the fence, and who do not have a stake in the current cannabis laws. If just one or two readers takes into consideration what I have said over the last 40+ pages, then it was worth it. But for now I think I'll go beat my head against a brick wall in order to find some relief.
such arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPolo
I took an online test and it said I was Green Party. To me of course this is just another label. I am a free thinking citizen. I also want the right to grow a reasonable amount for personal use. What is the reasonable amount ? The current medical laws allow to purchase up to 2 oz pier month. It takes 3-4 month to grow, so 2*4 = 8 oz at a time.
Yeah, Meth makers think they have the right to have home labs too to make Meth
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan
Sadly, the "Reefer Madness" brainwashing runs deep in some! Enough with this lame statement already!
I too am a free thinking person. Hell, God gave us free will, and I use that free will to sift through the bull****! WOWBut I do tend to align closely to libertarian ideology! As for a reasonable amount, it should be at the discretion of the person as to how much they want to grow. Like I've said, I'd love to have the option to grow my own for my own use. I have no desire to sell it. Share it with friends and neighbors as in a toke from time to time? Sure. Sell it? Nah!
Vistain and Browns fan,
Setting aside Pot
You 2 in general seem like such angry and bitter people.
Angry at the world, angry with the USA.
Angry with Police Officers and the law.
And yelling and screaming like you were at a rally to take these things down.
And it seems you have chosen the path of dope to put forth such anger and bitterness. An outlet.
It's the constant intense attacking and bullying of people who don't agree with you.
And the extreme off the wall comparisons.
From a fellow human being, really take a step back and look at yourselves.
Really.
I am truly saying this to you out of concern for seeing people so upset.
There is no logical argument for keeping cannabis illegal. Any negative effects on society or the individual is orders of magnitude less when compared with alcohol.
Anyone rallying against cannabis must also rally against alcohol, otherwise their arguments carry no weight at all. And if they really feel that people shouldn't be allowed recreational drugs then alcohol is the one to be prohibited if you want damage control.
In pretty much every metric, alcohol is far worse than pot. Fact, end of story.
The only negative health issue with cannabis consumption (edibles and vaporization) is the early onset of schizophrenia. But it's simply a catalyst and does not cause the underlying condition. You're headed down that road regardless.
Nomeofficer, I'm sure you'd rather not be called names (hint: sounds like druggie) or be judged by the "bad apple" police officers. Yet that is exactly what you're doing to cannabis users - we're all low life druggies... yeah right! You get zero respect from me because of your name calling and inability to discuss this without labeling us with your broad brush. Thank god, it's not your place to decide the laws, but to enforce them. We the people get to decide the laws.
I have no issue with the PO's in my town. Pot gets sold, legally, right in-front of their revenue generation operation. But there are schools, so enforcing the speed limit isn't such a bad idea. Much better use of their time than busting harmless cannabis users. Honestly, the PO's in my town are pretty cool guys. Knowing that they can't jail people for harmless, victimless crimes has dramatically increased my respect for them.
Sadly, the "Reefer Madness" brainwashing runs deep in some!
I think that applies to folks like Atalanta, but not our friendly officer friend. Atalanta doesn't really care about the subject, so has no desire to look into it far enough to realize there really is more to it than what she's been taught over the last several decades.
On the other hand, our officer friend is biased, but not necessarily brainwashed. He goes out and arrests some folks that deserved getting arrested, and invariably finds some pot even if the arrest was non-drug related. So in his mind it is easy (maybe even logical?) to connect pot with their abhorrent behavior.
But then he makes a pot-only related bust (usually because of a tip, or maybe someone spotted a plant growing on their property). If he finds no other problems with the person (or family) it doesn't matter, he completely overlooks the fact that pot was playing no negative role in that person's life. It doesn't even occur to him that maybe it's possible that most of the pot he confiscates from the real criminals plays no role in their deviant behavior either.
Combine that with the fact that drug related asset forfeitures represents such a significant part of his employer's budget, and it just becomes normal to look past reality and declare that pot is the reason for almost all of the abhorrent behavior he observes.
That is the part that is the hardest to stomach for me. Like I asked him before, and he would not respond, if he walked into my household and spotted some pot, but knew that otherwise I was a happy, healthy, productive member of society, he would still throw me in jail and his agency would start forfeiture proceedings so that they could steal my house. It doesn't even matter to them about any collateral damage that might be caused, like causing my businesses to fail, which would throw many others out of work too, they just want my house.
I know that is the way it works, I've been through it personally. I did not lose my house ONLY because it was mortgaged "to the hilt", as the drug officer put it. However, someone a few miles away DID lose their paid for house, in an upscale neighborhood, because of 1 plant found growing in their back yard. Again, that information came from the drug agent's mouth directly.
You call that sane? You call that justice? I'm afraid our friendly officer would...
Yeah, Meth makers think they have the right to have home labs too to make Meth
Vistain and Browns fan,
Setting aside Pot
You 2 in general seem like such angry and bitter people.
Angry at the world, angry with the USA.
Angry with Police Officers and the law.
And yelling and screaming like you were at a rally to take these things down.
And it seems you have chosen the path of dope to put forth such anger and bitterness. An outlet.
It's the constant attacking and bullying of people who don't agree with you.
And the extreme off the wall comparisons.
From a fellow human being, really take a step back and look at yourselves.
Really.
I am truly saying this to you out of concern for seeing people so upset.
You know it's funny...
I think maybe it is an error of human perception, that when someone disagrees with your position and will not be moved, you perceive them as hostile and therefore "upset" or "angry."
I do not pick up on an angry tone in any of their posts. I don't see the attacking. I see that when people don't agree with you, you feel that you are under attack. And frankly I also know a LOT of people, myself included, who don't totally trust the government or the police anymore and would like to see many things changed. And it is a FACT that police departments are able to ask for more funding, more hires, more equipment, in order to fight the drug war. And a FACT that we imprison a higher percentage of our population than any other country on earth. A FACT that some police departments will happily use the drug war as an excuse for asset forfeiture, and abusive, illegal searches. If notmeofficer does not participate in such corruption, I say good for him! Doesn't mean it isn't going on, all over the country.
I love the United States. I love so many cities, natural wonders, roadside curiosities, and wonderful people, let alone all of the opportunities we are blessed to enjoy here. Our art, our music, our history, our many cultures. Love it! I bet Vis. and Brownsfan do, too. But realize that we were brought up to understand that our Founding Fathers wanted freedom from tyranny and abuse, and they challenged future Americans to prevent our leadership from ever becoming as corrupt and oppressive as the one they broke away from. Why do you think that they enshrined the freedom to bear arms? We are accountable. And if we passively allow ourselves to be oppressed, we are failing.
For many anti-prohibitionists (including ones like me who don't even use the stuff) this goes way beyond a desire to sit around stoned without getting hassled. This is about a culture where police are viewing civilians as enemies in a "war" and an outrageous number of Americans are in jail, their lives and families torn apart, because of something that is only illegal because some fat cats didn't want to lose money in the first place.
CD seems consumed with potheads or libertarians beating their chest about how benign this drug is, and why it should be legalized.
C-D Forums, consumed? Nah, but this is a thread where that issue is being discussed. Yes, I'm also a libertarian in some respects, because it is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS what I choose to do on my own time in my own home with my own body and mind, when it does not violate the rights of or injure in any way any other person (and we already have laws against doing those things -- violating rights or injuring).
"Pothead?" Well, isn't that kind of like calling someone who has a drink or two once a week a "raging alcoholic?" Lots of people use cannabis from time to time. Doesn't make them "potheads," whatever that means. Some use cannabis very frequently and still manage, somehow, to maintain productive and fulfilling lives (shocking, I know). What business is it of mine or yours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
Marijuana in my opinion should receive a reclassification...
Oh so you agree it's not worse than Meth and Crack (both of which are rated not as severe as cannabis by the wise feds)? So, where should it be scheduled then? (It sounds like you think it should still be scheduled so as to still enable law enforcement to profit, right?) Why has the classification it now has (worse than Meth and Crack) persisted? Why should I listen to a single word they say on any other matter pertaining to substances when they get this one so woefully wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
Marijuana culture...
Oh please. Is this a culture war or what? I don't even know what you mean by that phrase. Certainly I don't know anyone to whom it applies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
...people whose life achievement is to use marijuana freely...
What I want to do with my life is fight against people like you. Control freaks. Leave us alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer
Stay as far away from drugs and those who seek them.
Stay away from those who profit from prohibition and who have the power to destroy lives.
You 2 in general seem like such angry and bitter people.
That is SO RICH!! Coming from you I mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atalanta
From a fellow human being, really take a step back and look at yourselves.
Please do the same. LIVE AND LET LIVE.
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And yes, I tend to be in the first category when it comes to political ideology. Also, I'd love to see hemp used for industrial purposes once again for textiles, as well as exploring as a possible fuel source. Given the many uses of cannabis, and it's cousin hemp it is extremely immoral to prohibit utilizing it to its full potential! God put it here for a reason!
You also seem to forget that some of the most creative, intelligent and innovative people throughout the course of time consumed cannabis (even some of the founders of this nation) unless of course you think that they were all degenerates as well?
