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Old 02-08-2015, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,548,424 times
Reputation: 7421

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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
You might take a look at this. Its an article from the British newspaper, The Guardian. It explains (and actually shows by means of animation) how those who refuse to vaccinate decrease herd immunity in a population and allow a highly contagious disease like measles to move through a population. Better than a ninety percent vaccination rate is needed to stop a highly infectious disease like the measles from infecting people.

Ninety percent of unvaccinated people exposed to the measles virus will contract the disease. Only one percent of those vaccinated will contract it.

Whether the first case was contracted abroad or not is irrelevant. Americans travel abroad all the time. Especially to Canada and Mexico.

A heavily vaccinated population (and that means no personal exemptions) is necessary to stop the disease in its tracks.

Watch how the measles outbreak spreads when kids get vaccinated
We have 90% or higher as a vaccine rate, thats why I'm wondering why you people want to take parents rights away even though parents already vaccinate at one of the highest rates voluntarily here? It doesn't make sense and seems like you have a different agenda.

Suzy claims Mexico has a vaccine rate like ours, as well as South America, and doesn't see the reason to mandate vaccines for foreigners entering our country yet you want to mandate vaccines for our citizens within our country? Why? It doesn't make sense.

We do a great job and our parents for the most part do a great job getting vaccinated. Why the push to prevent them from seeing doctors, and prevent them from making the decision for themselves? It's not logical. You both go from thread to thread about vaccines in America trying to convince mandates, and laws against parental choice? That's concerning. I'm just wondering what your reasoning is for it, since I'm a parent and like having the freedom to choose what happens to my child.

It definitely seems like a witch hunt to me, and when you do that to a parent it could have the opposite effect. You might just help grow the anti vax movement instead. I don't think it's a wise move.

Last edited by PoppySead; 02-08-2015 at 07:51 AM..

 
Old 02-08-2015, 07:32 AM
 
8,093 posts, read 4,448,863 times
Reputation: 8716
what about all those coming across the border unvaccinated
 
Old 02-08-2015, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,548,424 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbagg View Post
what about all those coming across the border unvaccinated
They claim that doesn't happen. I live in a border state and I can tell you that it does. Not to mention things like scabies, and other crap that we have no vaccines for. As usual, foreigners seem get a pass. Yet American parents are being turned away from doctors, and schools if they don't have all their shots yet.
Doesn't make sense to me.
Other countries have much stricter entry requirements than us, and a tight border. I have no idea why we can't manage it. Oh well, I guess that's another thread.
 
Old 02-08-2015, 07:47 AM
 
8,541 posts, read 5,262,232 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
We have 90% or higher as a vaccine rate, thats why I'm wondering why you people want to take parents rights away even though parents already vaccinate at one of the highest rates voluntarily here? It doesn't make sense and seems like you have a different agenda.

Suzy claims Mexico has a vaccine rate like ours, as well as South America, and doesn't see the reason to mandate vaccines for foriegners entering our country yet want to mandate vaccines for our citizens within our country? Why? It doesn't make sense.

We do a great job and our parents for the most part do a great job getting vaccinated. Why the push to prevent them from seeing doctors, and prevent them from making the decision for themselves? It's not logical. You both go from thread to thread about vaccines in America trying to convince mandates, and laws against parental choice? That's concerning. I'm just wondering what your reasoning is for it, since I'm a parent and like having the freedom to choose what happens to my child.
I wonder the same thing. Taking away people's right to choose for themselves and their families takes things to a whole new level and a few of these posters have been pushing it hard lately (Suzy especially). Posting until the wee hours of the morning on every single vaccine related thread on CD pushing for mandatory vaccinations. It makes a person wonder about that agenda.

If families who vaccinate their children for measles are so worried about the teeny tiny chance that a family who does not will infect their newborn they can do several things to further protect themselves. They can make sure that everyone in their home is vaccinated. The mom can breastfeed until the child is old enough for the vaccine. The passive antibodies will help to protect the baby until that time. The parents can choose not to send their baby to daycare. They can either stay home with the baby themselves or hire a nanny who will agree to get the vaccine if his or her titers do not show antibodies. Forcing people to get vaccinated against their will so that they can feel better seems like the least logical route to protecting themselves and a very dangerous step in taking away people's rights to decide what medical interventions they and their children will or will not receive.
 
Old 02-08-2015, 07:57 AM
 
8,541 posts, read 5,262,232 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
No; its the danger it posses to every child too young to get vaccinated. Some people just do not think: IMO.
What can a parent do to protect their child who is too young to be vaccinated? Breastfeed until the child is old enough to be fully vaccinated with MMR. The antibodies in the mom's milk can help protect the baby up until that point in time. The family of the child can choose to ensure that everyone in the family is vaccinated so that the baby can be protected. The parents can choose to stay home with the baby or hire a nanny who agrees to be vaccinated or have his or her titers checked rather then send the baby into a daycare center. Instead of worrying about the tiny threat that people who don't vaccinate pose, take care of what you can within your own family first if you are so concerned about the small possibility that your baby will get measles. Like you said, Think!
 
Old 02-08-2015, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,548,424 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
So your risk as a vaccinated person is 1% yet you are so scared of measles that you feel the need to force other people to get the vaccine due to the miniscule possibility that you may be a tiny bit less likely to contract measles?

I am not afraid of measles or the measles vaccine but I am very afraid of people like you and Suzy who are calling for forced vaccinations. Actually, I'm disgusted by it.
I totally agree. I vaccinate but I don't want my rights stripped away as a parent just because of some small % of people who think vaccines cause Autism.
I vaccinate willingly because I came to that decision. And I still want the choice. I'm concerned that this pro vax movement is going off the deep end now. I'm all for helping to inform, straightening out misinformation for people, encouraging to make good choices but this is off the deep end.
What's worse is that they don't see it as harassment, or threatening parents while they encourage doctors to refuse service and try to get laws passed taking parents right to choose for their kids away. They feel justified. It's strange.
Suggesting is meaning well, forcing is harassment. IMO, of course.
 
Old 02-08-2015, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,548,424 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I wonder the same thing. Taking away people's right to choose for themselves and their families takes things to a whole new level and a few of these posters have been pushing it hard lately (Suzy especially). Posting until the wee hours of the morning on every single vaccine related thread on CD pushing for mandatory vaccinations. It makes a person wonder about that agenda.

If families who vaccinate their children for measles are so worried about the teeny tiny chance that a family who does not will infect their newborn they can do several things to further protect themselves. They can make sure that everyone in their home is vaccinated. The mom can breastfeed until the child is old enough for the vaccine. The passive antibodies will help to protect the baby until that time. The parents can choose not to send their baby to daycare. They can either stay home with the baby themselves or hire a nanny who will agree to get the vaccine if his or her titers do not show antibodies. Forcing people to get vaccinated against their will so that they can feel better seems like the least logical route to protecting themselves and a very dangerous step in taking away people's rights to decide what medical interventions they and their children will or will not receive.
Especially given the rate of death from medical mistakes in America is tremendously higher than the rate of death from Measles given our high vaccine rate already. I agree, why troll thread after thread gathering support for mandates, and no medical care for the unvaccinated? In a country where are vaccine rates are envied by other countries and they use us as a model for high vaccine rates. I can in no way jump on that bandwagon, even if I agree with vaccination. I agree with freedom first, it's America.
 
Old 02-08-2015, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,961 posts, read 98,795,031 times
Reputation: 31371
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
What can a parent do to protect their child who is too young to be vaccinated? Breastfeed until the child is old enough to be fully vaccinated with MMR. The antibodies in the mom's milk can help protect the baby up until that point in time. The family of the child can choose to ensure that everyone in the family is vaccinated so that the baby can be protected. The parents can choose to stay home with the baby or hire a nanny who agrees to be vaccinated or have his or her titers checked rather then send the baby into a daycare center. Instead of worrying about the tiny threat that people who don't vaccinate pose, take care of what you can within your own family first if you are so concerned about the small possibility that your baby will get measles. Like you said, Think!
You know, we've discussed this many times before. The last time I was involved in such a discussion with you, I found information that even infants born to mothers who had natural disease (as opposed to having been immunized) lose their maternal antibodies by about six months of age. The antibodies passed through breast milk decrease as the child takes in less breast milk and more solid food. And some moms are unable to breast feed, many can't keep it up for a full year. Staying home and nannies are expensive solutions that not everyone can afford.

Seeing that everyone in the family is vaccinated is a good thing. Having the general populace vaccinated-even better.

This issue of a "tiny" threat is something that anti-vaxers don't seem to understand at all. There are "herds within the herd" that are vulnerable, as suzy pointed out. And the thing is, it's capricious. No one thought it would be dangerous to go to Disneyland . . . until it was. Ditto the day care in Illinois. Your kid could be exposed in the church nursery, or in the church sanctuary itself. So the overall risk for the entire US population may indeed be low, but the risk for your child may be high.
 
Old 02-08-2015, 08:24 AM
 
8,541 posts, read 5,262,232 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
You know, we've discussed this many times before. The last time I was involved in such a discussion with you, I found information that even infants born to mothers who had natural disease (as opposed to having been immunized) lose their maternal antibodies by about six months of age. The antibodies passed through breast milk decrease as the child takes in less breast milk and more solid food. And some moms are unable to breast feed, many can't keep it up for a full year. Staying home and nannies are expensive solutions that not everyone can afford.

Seeing that everyone in the family is vaccinated is a good thing. Having the general populace vaccinated-even better.

This issue of a "tiny" threat is something that anti-vaxers don't seem to understand at all. There are "herds within the herd" that are vulnerable, as suzy pointed out. And the thing is, it's capricious. No one thought it would be dangerous to go to Disneyland . . . until it was. Ditto the day care in Illinois. Your kid could be exposed in the church nursery, or in the church sanctuary itself. So the overall risk for the entire US population may indeed be low, but the risk for your child may be high.
Things like breastfeeding for a full year and staying home or hiring a nanny are much more reasonable measures then forcing people to vaccinate against their will. Denying kids access to public schools, to doctor's offices if they don't comply is not reasonable. People need to look at what they can personally do themselves before looking to strangers to protect them. The risk of a child contracting measles is low and the risk of them having complications from measles is even lower. The current "outbreak" of just over 100 people does not warrant the extreme reaction that we have been seeing in the media and in online conversations calling for mandatory vaccinations, jailing of parents who do not comply, etc.
 
Old 02-08-2015, 08:31 AM
 
8,541 posts, read 5,262,232 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Especially given the rate of death from medical mistakes in America is tremendously higher than the rate of death from Measles given our high vaccine rate already. I agree, why troll thread after thread gathering support for mandates, and no medical care for the unvaccinated? In a country where are vaccine rates are envied by other countries and they use us as a model for high vaccine rates. I can in no way jump on that bandwagon, even if I agree with vaccination. I agree with freedom first, it's America.

I am with you. This is about freedom. The freedom to make decisions for ourselves and for our families. It's about the freedom to choose what we do with our bodies. I wish that there were more people like you in these debates. People who are very much pro vaccine but who are approaching this with logic rather then emotion and who understand that the current over reaction from the pro vaccine extreme has more to do with taking away people's freedom then it does to do with where a person stands on vaccines. I respect you for your ability to see the big picture and to not fall prey to fear.
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