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Old 02-11-2015, 06:52 AM
 
8,541 posts, read 5,260,408 times
Reputation: 9100

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
So anybody who talks about vaccines in any other light but fantastic is going to lose their job?
Wow
Student defends prof's anti-vaccination lectures | The Kingston Whig-Standard


I had no idea it was getting this bad, I did hear people are ousting Jenny out of her jobs as well but I didn't realize it was going to start being anyone who doesn't agree with vaccine safety. Pretty soon, they will all be silenced, sounds like a movie I've seen. Doesn't anything seem odd about that?

I guess that's one way to make sure everyone gets their vaccines, fire anyone who has questions about them.
I'm outta here lol, I guess I'll stop with my questions. No seriously, seems like a little much to me.

So people don't want anti vaxers going to their doctors, but where will they go if they fire all the anti vax docs?Anti-Vaccine Doctors Should Lose Their Licenses - Forbes
So much for free speech or free thought, eh?

 
Old 02-11-2015, 06:57 AM
 
8,541 posts, read 5,260,408 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesster View Post
Oh that's rich. If there's anyone refusing to take full responsibility for protecting their children and expecting strangers to make sacrifices for them, it's the anti-vaxxers.
The majorly huge difference is that I do not expect anyone to make sacrifices. I expect people to have the ability to choose. We don't have to agree but I do expect that before trying to take away my rights to choose out of fear of illness, you will first take all necessary steps yourself.

Quote:
"So what if the effects of getting a real disease are way worse than getting vaccinated and have much higher chances of actually happening? You should get your kids vaccinated so mine don't have to. I don't care if infants and immunosuppressed people who would take a vaccine if they could die or suffer lifelong disabilty from a preventable virus they caught from my unvaccinated kid. The nonexistent chance my child might suffer some debunked side effect I read about on a quack's web site is way more important. BECAUSE ME AND MY KIDS ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO COUNT SO SCREW EVERYONE ELSE, AMIRITE?"
NO, you're wrong. Quit making assumptions and try to gain a little understanding.
 
Old 02-11-2015, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,546,743 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
The majorly huge difference is that I do not expect anyone to make sacrifices. I expect people to have the ability to choose. We don't have to agree but I do expect that before trying to take away my rights to choose out of fear of illness, you will first take all necessary steps yourself.

NO, you're wrong. Quit making assumptions and try to gain a little understanding.
Yes, two can play at that game.
I think public school is a danger and spreads more illness than those who homeschool or online school. Flu Spreads Quickest Among Kids, Teachers, Health-Care Workers
Science proves this.
Besides our school system is failing:
http://secondary-education.yoexpert....ing-33436.html

Homeschool kids score better:
http://www.homelifeacademy.com/homes...tatistics.aspx

Therefore, to prevent the spread of illness I think we should close schools and school our kids at home. If this is a finacial burden to single parents then we should have our government pay for inhome care while parents work. We can use the funds delagated to after and before school care we already pay for and use it for home care, that will dramatically stop the spread of illness.
You can't argue with logic, nor the science that backs this up. Public schools put my child at risk for illnesses that could cause death, or crippling effects. People die from colds and flu's, every year children die from illnesses like the ones spread at school.

Please spare me the quack science telling us that kids can only be social at school as a retort to this. My kids safety comes first. I'm sick of school killing kids. If we can limit this exposure, and science says that if my child homeschools they are less likely to catch illness and so are others, then we should. It's the right thing to do.

"National Home Education Research Institute president Brian Ray agrees. He says socialization is not a problem for the vast majority of homeschool students, many of whom are involved in community sports, volunteer activities, book groups or homeschool co-ops. “Research shows that in terms of self-concept, self-esteem and the ability to get along in groups, homeschoolers do just as well as their public school peers,” says Ray.
"http://www.pbs.org/parents/education/homeschooling/socialization-tackling-homeschoolings-s-word/

That way, during peak times for spread of illness you can avoid socializing, and as studies have proven stay away from studies proving it's schools that spread the most illness. Let's be a safe America.
The good news is that the side effect of keeping kids home is not only will the spread of illness decline but your kids will be smarter.


You could do this with anything, doesn't make it the right choice. Pick a topic, I can show you that science proves it would be better to not do it, or to do it. This argument can go on and on like the energizer bunny. Who is in charge of when it stops? How far will it go if we keep letting these things slide. It's ridiculous to me. I just don't agree with dividing people on issues like this. We should just all try to work together, and respect each others reasons, even if we disagree or the science goes against it. So far, the majority of people have made vaccines their first choice, I don't see the issue.

Last edited by PoppySead; 02-11-2015 at 07:42 AM..
 
Old 02-11-2015, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,959 posts, read 98,776,620 times
Reputation: 31371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesster View Post
Oh that's rich. If there's anyone refusing to take full responsibility for protecting their children and expecting strangers to make sacrifices for them, it's the anti-vaxxers.

"So what if the effects of getting a real disease are way worse than getting vaccinated and have much higher chances of actually happening? You should get your kids vaccinated so mine don't have to. I don't care if infants and immunosuppressed people who would take a vaccine if they could die or suffer lifelong disabilty from a preventable virus they caught from my unvaccinated kid. The nonexistent chance my child might suffer some debunked side effect I read about on a quack's web site is way more important. BECAUSE ME AND MY KIDS ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO COUNT SO SCREW EVERYONE ELSE, AMIRITE?"
Exactly! Especially with that poster's history. The thread the following two posts came from is closed, so I can't multiquote. But this poster did say she would not give her kids the flu shot even if there was a kid on chemo in their classrooms.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/38357799-post146.html
http://www.city-data.com/forum/38357841-post148.html

She tried to blow it off saying there are no kids in her childrens' classes on chemo. But the reality is, that could change tomorrow, or next week or next month or next year, etc.
 
Old 02-11-2015, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County
11,062 posts, read 8,980,576 times
Reputation: 28987
Serious question since I don't know but are flu shots mandated? Seems many more die from the flu than measles.
 
Old 02-11-2015, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,546,743 times
Reputation: 7421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Geek View Post
Serious question since I don't know but are flu shots mandated? Seems many more die from the flu than measles.
They are trying, so far they have been working on healthcare professionals, anyone who works in public health. Can't work without flu vaccine.

Nurses union sues to block proposed flu-shot mandate at Brigham and Women’s Hospital - Metro - The Boston Globe
And of course the kids: Can't go to preschool without flu vaccine.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/03/ny...lers.html?_r=0

But, it's not as effective as they thought, so, it's up for debate I guess. But yes, they will eventually require all kinds of shots to be mandated.
There are a lot of shots adults don't get that are suggested, I'm sure these will one day be included. They aren't just for the flu either. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedule...-easy-read.pdf
Hopefully your job doesn't depend on it.
 
Old 02-11-2015, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,959 posts, read 98,776,620 times
Reputation: 31371
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Your concern surely isn't about spread of illness or health. Western doctors have large waiting rooms full of sick people spreading illness all the time, hospitals spread bacterial infections that are killing way more people than Measles has in 20 years. Western doctors kill people with bad advice, the wrong medicine, overlooking conditions, the facts are I could go on and on for hours on the amount of preventable death and injury our medical system and the science behind it kills or harms yearly in this country and others. You can't use that as an argument because it will fail in a big way and people will see through it. Good science kills all the time. That argument fails.

But, you want anyone fired because they don't practice the CDC recommended vaccine route? Then this isn't about safety, or keeping people well or preventing the spread of disease. It's about conforming.

It's just a witch hunt on the latest hot topic. I'm afraid it's going to backfire. We should just stick to what works for the majority and stop making vaccines a debate. Most people would just not choose those few doctors if given the choice, take that choice away and you are going to have a larger problem on your hands. I don't like the approach, and I think it's a bad way to go.

If we didn't have so many harmed by our medical practices they wouldn't be looking at alternatives. I think what would help most is to clean up our own backyard. Then we'd gain the trust, not just get rid of all who don't believe like the majority do. That never works.

Naw, I don't like the new approach at all. I think it's more harmful then letting a few go. Nothing about our vaccine rate warrants this, being afraid that more won't vaccinate in the future doesn't warrant this, so far we have a growing vaccination rate without it.

Sorry, we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't think we will ever see eye to eye on it. But, I don't think I should be silenced because we disagree either. I think people should be informed about the science on vaccines, and given a choice. Not fired if they don't chose what people like you think is the best choice.

Anybody can harm you, that's not a valid argument or we would have to fire the entire medical system and all the scientists. Just doesn't fly with me. Sorry.

Quote:
The nurse that comes to check on my homebound mom doesn't vaccinate from the flu, and openly says so. She was sent by the regular western hospital to help my mother. Should she be fired?
Last things first. In many cases, that nurse could be fired. Many hospitals require staff who do patient care to get the flu shot, or wear a mask continuously during flu season, or get fired. I was having a conversation with my spouse about professions who seem more pro-disease than others. I brought up engineering. Look at the Bay Area. He brought up nurses. I said, "hospital nurses, yes, some are pro-disease. But community nurses not so much, b/c we see people with flu. You work on a surgical floor in a hospital, not so much. And the reality is nurses' uptake of flu vaccine is pretty good. Almost Everyone Needs a Flu Shot: CDC 90%, for those too lazy to open the link.

Back to the beginning, I am shocked you would accuse a poster who works in a doctor's office of being unconcerned about health. That people pick up infections in hospitals is for the purposes of this discussion irrelevant.

As far as backfires, I think the pro-disease people are getting their due. Most message boards I post on, including NPR, are more anti-pro-disease people than this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
That's the thing, there are so many issues that take front seat to this when it's a matter of believing the science. I'm not religious but I believe in the choice to be, even though the science isn't behind it. I care deeply about addressing global warming and I think there is good science behind it, but we know how divided that is. And, if that doesn't effect us all I don't know what does.
It comes down to realizing the science behind anything doesn't hold water. If we got rid of everything science couldn't prove, think of what our world would look like. For one, our president wouldn't be saying "God Bless America" or he'd be fired.
We can try and persuade based on science, but you just can't force people to do what you think they should. Some people don't trust science. I've experienced this first hand on the religious thread. People want to pick and chose what they use the science for and that's so far, their right to do so. I don't think we should rock the boat in that regard, so many things would change.
So why are you posting on this board, if you think there are more important issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
The majorly huge difference is that I do not expect anyone to make sacrifices. I expect people to have the ability to choose. We don't have to agree but I do expect that before trying to take away my rights to choose out of fear of illness, you will first take all necessary steps yourself.

NO, you're wrong. Quit making assumptions and try to gain a little understanding.
The heck you don't. See my post just above this one.
 
Old 02-11-2015, 08:24 AM
 
8,541 posts, read 5,260,408 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
Exactly! Especially with that poster's history. The thread the following two posts came from is closed, so I can't multiquote. But this poster did say she would not give her kids the flu shot even if there was a kid on chemo in their classrooms.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/38357799-post146.html
http://www.city-data.com/forum/38357841-post148.html

She tried to blow it off saying there are no kids in her childrens' classes on chemo. But the reality is, that could change tomorrow, or next week or next month or next year, etc.
I wouldn't give my child the flu shot because the "science" behind it does not show that it works. I also would not get it because of how it interacts with one's immune system making one temporarily more susceptible to catching other sickness while it takes effects. Not to mention that every year the same people I know who get the flu vaccine end up getting the flu anyway. You think that's "cold", I think it's logical. Get over it.
 
Old 02-11-2015, 08:28 AM
 
8,541 posts, read 5,260,408 times
Reputation: 9100
"Pro-disease"? Really? How much more confrontational and ridiculous can the rhetoric get?
 
Old 02-11-2015, 08:37 AM
bg7
 
7,698 posts, read 7,627,262 times
Reputation: 14991
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
So much for free speech or free thought, eh?
Free thought doesn't mean thoughtless.
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