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Old 02-07-2015, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,272 posts, read 28,068,309 times
Reputation: 28721

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken S. View Post
So why aren't there major outbreaks linked to Disneyland every year, then?
Because not every year has a contagious traveler going to Disneyland.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiznluv View Post
I do the same thing! I test positive for TB every single time and have never had it!
If you have a positive TB skin test, you have been infected with TB at some point, even if it did not make you ill. At the time you had the first positive test you should have had additional tests and possibly treatment. If that was not done, you should talk to your doctor. After the first positive test, there is no reason to do more skin tests, since they will be positive, too.

CDC | TB | Testing & Diagnosis

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Just as long as your obsession with the anti vax movement doesn't cloud the fact that even if and when we solve that problem we will still see outbreaks of Measles and other like diseases in America. Not all people who aren't vaccinated are from our country, and illegal immigrants or travelers to this country bring with them more than luggage. Not to mention the boosters I have mentioned for any disease including Measles for all adults.

If you don't encompass all of it, you can cause undo attention on one segment of the problem which makes it easier to ignore the rest of it, like travel, other countries where Measles aren't erraticated and of course boosters for adults walking around not knowing they have no immunity, nor caring to check until it's too late.

Hence a campaign and not just a fight pinpointed at one objective. If all children of anti vax parents started vaccination it wouldn't prevent Measles outbreaks, babies getting Measles or the spread. It would just help, but a lot of things would help. We have to address it all as a whole, not just people who are against vaccines. Those are a small pocket of the problem, not THE problem.
Illegal immigrants are not bringing measles to the US. It is legal tourists and business travelers and citizens who went to areas where measles is endemic without being vaccinated first.

Measles boosters are not needed for all adults who have been vaccinated because the majority (over 90%) are immune for life. People vaccinated in the early 60s might want to either get a titer or a booster.

The people who do not vaccinate are not a "small pocket of the problem", they are the majority of the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Hospitality View Post
While surveys are suggestive, unfortunately, they are not scientifically sound. It's worth noting.
Not necessarily. It depends on what kind of survey was used. It is not necessarily just randomly calling people on the telephone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
... anti vaxers just gives us more cases and they can help it spread in America.
Which is the point I have been making all along.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken S. View Post
Based on your earlier response California is positively overrun with the unvaccinated, but somehow now I'm supposed to believe that during the last 15 or so years only one such person has gone to Disneyland -- the of the USA's biggest tourist traps. This person must have sneezing and coughing at an astonishing rate the whole time, too.
Yes, it is likely that only one person with measles has traveled from abroad and visited Disneyland in the last fifteen years. Since such a person would most likely not travel if he were sick, so he had to have his travel dates coincide with the three week window in which he could develop symptoms. He may not have even had symptoms himself while he was in the park. He could spread the virus for four days before getting sick, leaving it to linger for a couple of hours in every store, ride, restaurant, and restroom he visited.

 
Old 02-07-2015, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,857,589 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
Yes, I was just thinking about this today while riding in the car. (A good place to think, IMO.) Anyway, it's hardly surprising (to me) that the current outbreak happened at Disney. It's full of unvaccinated babies and partially vaccinated toddlers and preschoolers.



You know, California had a big pertussis outbreak in 2010. For three years, the health authorities there insisted the unvaccinated people in CA played little part in this epidemic. Finally, in 2013, research showed that the unvaccinated did contribute to the epidemic. My point? You can go on and on about other factors, but I'd bet the farm that when all is said and done, the unvaccinated will be found to have contributed to this outbreak too.
Nonmedical Vaccine Exemptions and Pertussis in California, 2010



Voluntary measures seldom work.
By contribute you mean were exposed? Who said they didn't? But an outbreak of Measles in a country with no Measles starts from a foreign source.

It's not in the soil, nor do unvaccinated kids just spawn it out of thin air and give to others. I'll bet the farm back if you can prove they do. It had to first come from somewhere out of the country.

If I were you I would actually read my posts before you address them. Unless of course you are just agreeing with pharma reps because I clearly stated they are involved in spreading Measles after it got here. But, they didn't cause the outbreak, they were just involved. The outbreak would simply be smaller, but would have still happened. There is a difference, especially important to be clear about this when people are bashing anti vaxers. You can't blame them for starting outbreaks here unless you want to ignore the facts.
The only way is if they traveled out of the country and brought it in, in which case required travel vaccines would address that. But, we don't care enough about the spread of measles to require vaccines for travel into our country.
 
Old 02-07-2015, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,857,589 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Because not every year has a contagious traveler going to Disneyland.



If you have a positive TB skin test, you have been infected with TB at some point, even if it did not make you ill. At the time you had the first positive test you should have had additional tests and possibly treatment. If that was not done, you should talk to your doctor. After the first positive test, there is no reason to do more skin tests, since they will be positive, too.

CDC | TB | Testing & Diagnosis



Illegal immigrants are not bringing measles to the US. It is legal tourists and business travelers and citizens who went to areas where measles is endemic without being vaccinated first.

Measles boosters are not needed for all adults who have been vaccinated because the majority (over 90%) are immune for life. People vaccinated in the early 60s might want to either get a titer or a booster.

The people who do not vaccinate are not a "small pocket of the problem", they are the majority of the problem.



Not necessarily. It depends on what kind of survey was used. It is not necessarily just randomly calling people on the telephone.



Which is the point I have been making all along.



Yes, it is likely that only one person with measles has traveled from abroad and visited Disneyland in the last fifteen years. Since such a person would most likely not travel if he were sick, so he had to have his travel dates coincide with the three week window in which he could develop symptoms. He may not have even had symptoms himself while he was in the park. He could spread the virus for four days before getting sick, leaving it to linger for a couple of hours in every store, ride, restaurant, and restroom he visited.
I am now totally convinced you don't read my posts at all. Have fun, hope you don't close down another thread.
 
Old 02-07-2015, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,272 posts, read 28,068,309 times
Reputation: 28721
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
By contribute you mean were exposed? Who said they didn't? But an outbreak of Measles in a country with no Measles starts from a foreign source.

It's not in the soil, nor do unvaccinated kids just spawn it out of thin air and give to others. I'll bet the farm back if you can prove they do. It had to first come from somewhere out of the country.

If I were you I would actually read my posts before you address them. Unless of course you are just agreeing with pharma reps because I clearly stated they are involved in spreading Measles after it got here. But, they didn't cause the outbreak, they were just involved. The outbreak would simply be smaller, but would have still happened. There is a difference, especially important to be clear about this when people are bashing anti vaxers. You can't blame them for starting outbreaks here unless you want to ignore the facts.
The only way is if they traveled out of the country and brought it in, in which case required travel vaccines would address that. But, we don't care enough about the spread of measles to require vaccines for travel into our country.
Outbreaks are being started by unvaccinated citizens who travel out of the country and bring it back. That is the way most outbreaks are being started here, and when they come back, they bring it to their unvaccinated families and friends. If the only people encountered by a traveler with measles are folks who have been vaccinated, then there may be no cases beyond the sick traveler at all. There are no travel restrictions, and I doubt if there will be any in the near future.

That means that increasing vaccination rates here is the only way we will reduce the number of cases in the US within a reasonable time frame.
 
Old 02-07-2015, 07:59 PM
 
1,774 posts, read 1,826,590 times
Reputation: 2701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken S. View Post
Last I heard 102+ cases in the USA and 7 in Canada. So far the relationship between the 7 in Canada is unclear, other than 6 being in Toronto and the other being someone who had recently been in Toronto several times. It looks as though governments are going to crack down on people who refuse vaccinations on religious and personal liberty grounds. In the last few days people who have opposed vaccinations claiming they cause serious health problems in some cases have been being stridently attacked. One example is Queen's University (Canada) professor Melody Torcolacci. So what's going on here? Is the outbreak a "natural" event, a bio-terror attack, or a black op? First we have an unprecedented ebola outbreak, then a complete fubar with the flu vaccine, now a rapidly worsening measels outbreak all within the last six months.
just watch the TV show "Utopia" from the UK and it will all make sense
 
Old 02-07-2015, 08:40 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,302 posts, read 12,180,791 times
Reputation: 8048
Well, I'll try again: Christie and Paul Come Down With Measles - Bloomberg View

Oh, the irony!
 
Old 02-07-2015, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,857,589 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Outbreaks are being started by unvaccinated citizens who travel out of the country and bring it back. That is the way most outbreaks are being started here, and when they come back, they bring it to their unvaccinated families and friends. If the only people encountered by a traveler with measles are folks who have been vaccinated, then there may be no cases beyond the sick traveler at all. There are no travel restrictions, and I doubt if there will be any in the near future.

How else would someone get Measles if they brought it here? People from other countries come here with illnesses all the time, and they are not part of the American Anti vax movement. Are you saying the majority, or "most" of the time these outbreaks are from Autism feared Anti Vaxers? I'll need data for the "most" part. Some, probably, but most? No. The American anti vax movement is to small to have caused all our outbreaks from a life of travel.

That means that increasing vaccination rates here is the only way we will reduce the number of cases in the US within a reasonable time frame.
Within a reasonable time frame? Please explain that one. You mean before this current outbreak increases beyond control?
Increasing vaccination rates here is and has always been a good idea, and promoted heavily, again, who are you talking to with that? Not me. That is why we are the envy of Europe. We have very few cases compared to them. I have no idea why you have to go back to the same old thing, over and over again. We agree on pretty much everything but taking away parental rights in America using fear mongering.
 
Old 02-07-2015, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,883 posts, read 102,281,764 times
Reputation: 32946
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
By contribute you mean were exposed? Who said they didn't? But an outbreak of Measles in a country with no Measles starts from a foreign source.

It's not in the soil, nor do unvaccinated kids just spawn it out of thin air and give to others. I'll bet the farm back if you can prove they do. It had to first come from somewhere out of the country.

If I were you I would actually read my posts before you address them. Unless of course you are just agreeing with pharma reps because I clearly stated they are involved in spreading Measles after it got here. But, they didn't cause the outbreak, they were just involved. The outbreak would simply be smaller, but would have still happened. There is a difference, especially important to be clear about this when people are bashing anti vaxers. You can't blame them for starting outbreaks here unless you want to ignore the facts.
The only way is if they traveled out of the country and brought it in, in which case required travel vaccines would address that. But, we don't care enough about the spread of measles to require vaccines for travel into our country.
There is little doubt that "Patient 0" came from outside the US for all the reasons that have already been discussed here. But there are 102 cases in the US.
 
Old 02-07-2015, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,272 posts, read 28,068,309 times
Reputation: 28721
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Within a reasonable time frame? Please explain that one. You mean before this current outbreak increases beyond control?
Increasing vaccination rates here is and has always been a good idea, and promoted heavily, again, who are you talking to with that? Not me. That is why we are the envy of Europe. We have very few cases compared to them. I have no idea why you have to go back to the same old thing, over and over again. We agree on pretty much everything but taking away parental rights in America using fear mongering.
Within a reasonable time frame? How long do you think it would take to get Congress to pass a law requiring proof of immunity to measles in order to enter the country? Not to mention the firestorm it would generate in the anti-vax camp.

I feel the public good trumps the right of people to not vaccinate. Why am I "fear mongering" when I tell you that vaccine preventable diseases are dangerous, but an anti-vax person insisting vaccines cause autism (and everything from SIDS to multiple sclerosis) is not?

I just give the facts here. If you feel those facts are mongering fear, perhaps they should do so.
 
Old 02-07-2015, 10:52 PM
 
9,961 posts, read 6,263,818 times
Reputation: 8304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken S. View Post
Last I heard 102+ cases in the USA and 7 in Canada. So far the relationship between the 7 in Canada is unclear, other than 6 being in Toronto and the other being someone who had recently been in Toronto several times. It looks as though governments are going to crack down on people who refuse vaccinations on religious and personal liberty grounds. In the last few days people who have opposed vaccinations claiming they cause serious health problems in some cases have been being stridently attacked. One example is Queen's University (Canada) professor Melody Torcolacci. So what's going on here? Is the outbreak a "natural" event, a bio-terror attack, or a black op? First we have an unprecedented ebola outbreak, then a complete fubar with the flu vaccine, now a rapidly worsening measels outbreak all within the last six months.
Is the outbreak a "natural" event, a bio-terror attack, or a black op?

A natural event. What do you think happens when people aren't vaccinated? A lot of folks have no idea just how bad disease was in the "old" days.
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