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I wonder, if a child dies or becomes incapacitated in any way because of contracting the measles due to the fact that his or her parent thought the vaccine was a bad idea, what would that parent think of that "bad idea" as a result of their decision?
This disease killed and crippled kids. Anyone who was around during those years might remember that. I don't doubt that the vaccine can cause some type of reaction in some children but which risk is greater, getting this disease that can kill or maim or getting a vaccine that is not very likely at all to do any damage but will do a lot of good? I just don't get some people's reasoning.
Same thing if someones kids die or get hurt from an allergic reaction or immune system issue from the shot. Thats why its a choice and choices are hard because of the consequences. Most people get vaccinated, a few do not for many reasons.
You also have to look at other things like funding, the author's political agenda, and the journal's own editorial policies. Often you'll find that this results in their following a line that conforms to the prevailing beliefs in the scientific community. Scientific data/findings that rock the boat too much are either rejected or viciously attacked and denounced. People fail to understand just how petty, factional, egotistical, and mean-spirited most scientists are. Once the majority get swayed into believing certain things, woe to those who provide evidence that they are in fact wrong... An example I would suggest looking into is Rachel Carson when she published Silent Spring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359
An excellent point. I have been trying for a long time to get those who oppose vaccination to do exactly this. They could do the following things for me:
1. Produce a list of all reputable medical journal articles that oppose vaccination.*
2. Produce a list of all licensed medical doctors (either M.D. or D.O), along with their board certification, who oppose vaccination.**
3. Cite all published (and not retracted) scientific studies that show that a vaccine, or vaccines are either ineffective or harmful.***
Since they are decided already, then what exactly do you pro vaxers want? I believe in womens rights, fathers rights and parental rights and I am weary of people who push agendas out of fear and hyperbowl such as this fear that Measles is out of control due to people who choose not to vaccinate. Concern yes, campaigns for vaccinating, material on good choices, yes, yes, yes, but.....that has already been discused and doesn't seem to meet the demand.....
So, what do you all want? Will you allow selective vaccination? Will knew vaccines be introduced without choice in the mandates? Will it only involve right to education if you don't get them? Or, will it also involve right to medical care?
Will it go as far as to become law, as if you don't adhear to the vaccine schedule the state mandates you get a fine like you do when you don't get car or now health insurance? Or will it mean jail time like the parents who 's kids are truant from school? Or will you be willing for it to be treated like child abuse and the kids will go to foster care, like the lady with an overweight child recently that was removed for his weight from the family and put in the foster care system? Or the lady who let her child walk down the street to go to the park.
I'm through arguing about why some people want the right to choose, obviously moot, now I'm on to how far you want this to go and what it will entail. Because, most people get vaccines, not all or on schedule but most do. So what is it you'd like to force us to do exactly?
Pro womens rights, pro parents, pro gun, we all know what these "mean" now, but not quite what the new pro vax movement is wanting, or what does it "mean" to be pro vax? How far are you going with this?
When you are all meeting on threads, arguing for vaccines, is that it? Or is that just the beginning? What's your dream for our future.
Oh, and every pro vaxer on here please, feel free to help answer this. What are we not doing already that you want done?
Failure to vaccinate is the machinery that makes outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases possible. Rising rates of vaccine refusal threaten herd immunity for measles. That is why the public health experts are concerned, and rightly so.
What I want is for those who refuse vaccines to listen to the scientists and understand that the diseases vaccines prevent are many times more dangerous than the vaccines themselves. I want them to understand there is no reason to use alternative vaccine schedules - and some risk in doing so. I want them to realize that their decision not to vaccinate puts not only their families at risk but every person in the community, especially infants too young to be vaccinated and others with conditions which prevent them from being vaccinated. I want the refusers to understand that exercising the freedom not to vaccinate may rob someone else of the freedom to vaccinate.
My dream for the future would be for everyone who does not have a true medical contraindication to vaccination to be vaccinated.
What are you not doing already that I want done? Vaccination of your children for the benefit of their own health and the health of every other person in the community. By doing that, any vaccine preventable disease with no hosts other than humans can be eliminated, not just in the US but worldwide, including measles, mumps, rubella, polio (eradication is within reach), and hepatitis B. If that happens, then no one will need the vaccines for those diseases.
Do you know how many people actually follow Jenny's advice on vaccinating in America for their reasons to exclude any vaccines? Is it that large of an amount?
You really do not understand the harm Jenny and her cohorts have done, do you?
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Originally Posted by MissTerri
I don't know anyone who follows Jenny McCarthy or who looks to her for advice on vaccines. I'm starting to think that her role in all of this is to discredit people who question vaccines. I don't know a single person who has read any of her books or even cares about what she thinks. People just use her as an excuse to put down people who question vaccines. They make blanket assumptions that we are all so stupid that we just blindly follow a celebrity. Their assumptions are false for most people who question vaccines.
Jenny promoted the vaccines cause autism myth to a large audience. Perhaps someone who refuses vaccines because of fear of autism is not doing so directly because of Jenny. He may believe Wakefield. But Jenny helped keep Wakefield in the limelight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys
As with all things science, you need to cut to the chase.. You aren't going to learn science from the media or politicians. You have to go to the source. You have to read the original studies, you have to do what scientists call a "literature survey" - go back through the scientific journals, following the cited references until you get to the papers that other scientists base their assumptions on. You read those papers, you determine the scope, you look at the raw data and you analyze the conclusions. Only then will you understand the subject.. It's pointless to latch on to things the media says or agencies that regurgitate political agendas. Don't pay attention to anybody's *opinion* of raw data.. Look at the raw data yourself : the *original* raw data, ie.. Follow the references to the source. I most cases this is 6+ levels deep.
Or you can take the advice of someone who is intimately aware of all that data, including the people who generated it. That means listening to your doctor. The meme that doctors know nothing about vaccines is false.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead
Same thing if someones kids die or get hurt from an allergic reaction or immune system issue from the shot. Thats why its a choice and choices are hard because of the consequences. Most people get vaccinated, a few do not for many reasons.
Again, a complete inability to understand that serious complications from vaccines are rare, and far less common than serious complications from the diseases they prevent.
Failure to vaccinate is the machinery that makes outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases possible. Rising rates of vaccine refusal threaten herd immunity for measles. That is why the public health experts are concerned, and rightly so.
What I want is for those who refuse vaccines to listen to the scientists and understand that the diseases vaccines prevent are many times more dangerous than the vaccines themselves. I want them to understand there is no reason to use alternative vaccine schedules - and some risk in doing so. I want them to realize that their decision not to vaccinate puts not only their families at risk but every person in the community, especially infants too young to be vaccinated and others with conditions which prevent them from being vaccinated. I want the refusers to understand that exercising the freedom not to vaccinate may rob someone else of the freedom to vaccinate.
My dream for the future would be for everyone who does not have a true medical contraindication to vaccination to be vaccinated.
What are you not doing already that I want done? Vaccination of your children for the benefit of their own health and the health of every other person in the community. By doing that, any vaccine preventable disease with no hosts other than humans can be eliminated, not just in the US but worldwide, including measles, mumps, rubella, polio (eradication is within reach), and hepatitis B. If that happens, then no one will need the vaccines for those diseases.
Well, I have vaccinated because I made that choice as most parents do. Getting back to what I actually asked, whats the agenda you all have to make those personal wishes you've laid out a reality? In other words, could you really answer the question?
What do you want the government to do about it?
You really do not understand the harm Jenny and her cohorts have done, do you?
No, I dont, there are a lot of people selling conspiracy Suzy, its a big business in America and they are free to do so. Doesn't mean everyone buys it. People aren't as stupid as the pictures you paint. All she did was question, and thought she found an answer, people are still questioning why we get Autism, and still look for ties in other things. Its a horrible illness, I imagine they will seek until they find answers.
Most now know thanks to Jennys journey that its probably not vaccines. Cohorts? Lol really?
Jenny promoted the vaccines cause autism myth to a large audience. Perhaps someone who refuses vaccines because of fear of autism is not doing so directly because of Jenny. He may believe Wakefield. But Jenny helped keep Wakefield in the limelight.
Or you can take the advice of someone who is intimately aware of all that data, including the people who generated it. That means listening to your doctor. The meme that doctors know nothing about vaccines is false.
Again, a complete inability to understand that serious complications from vaccines are rare, and far less common than serious complications from the diseases they prevent.
I have no inability Suzy, you don't corner ability, I just know first hand some are allergic and some have immunity issues and shouldn't get the shot. Sadly, they will be vulnerable, but I don't mind protecting them with my immunity. They are a small minority.
Well, I have vaccinated because I made that choice as most parents do. Getting back to what I actually asked, whats the agenda you all have to make those personal wishes you've laid out a reality? In other words, could you really answer the question?
What do you want the government to do about it?
My agenda, as I have repeatedly stated, is to protect people against vaccine preventable diseases. I do not know any way to make that more clear.
I want the government to eliminate school vaccine exemptions for all reasons except medical necessity, as Mississippi and West Virginia have done.
I have no inability Suzy, you don't corner ability, I just know first hand some are allergic and some have immunity issues and shouldn't get the shot. Sadly, they will be vulnerable, but I don't mind protecting them with my immunity. They are a small minority.
You said vaccines cause allergic reactions or immune issues. The risk of that happening are tiny.
Someone who is known to be allergic to a vaccine or immunosuppressed has a medical contraindication. No one advocates giving them vaccines and they deserve the benefit of herd immunity. I have never said there should not be medical exemptions. Where did you get that impression?
The problem is the people who do not want to vaccinate because they believe the myths that the anti-vax community promulgates. Bad decisions based on pseudoscience should not be enabled. Fear of a vaccine causing autism should not be grounds for a vaccine exemption, and that continues to be a major reason for vaccine refusal.
I don't know anyone who follows Jenny McCarthy or who looks to her for advice on vaccines. I'm starting to think that her role in all of this is to discredit people who question vaccines. I don't know a single person who has read any of her books or even cares about what she thinks. People just use her as an excuse to put down people who question vaccines. They make blanket assumptions that we are all so stupid that we just blindly follow a celebrity. Their assumptions are false for most people who question vaccines.
How do you feel about Wakefield then? Because JM never put forth her own studies but rather brought attention to guys like Wakefield.
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Will you allow selective vaccination? Will knew vaccines be introduced without choice in the mandates? Will it only involve right to education if you don't get them? Or, will it also involve right to medical care? 
What are we not doing already that you want done?