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Oh. My. God! We've already shown how much treating vaccine preventable diseases vs treating vaccine adverse events cost in Colorado in 2013. 100X as much money was spent on the former. You may search my posts for the links.
Here's a good article for all the "liberty" people: I've Seen A Measles Outbreak; It's Not Something We Want To Risk By Denigrating Vaccines - Forbes "I appreciate the need to stand up for personal freedom and defend our liberties. But in the case of a highly infectious and highly contagious disease, the “choice” we are defending is one that allows neighbor to harm neighbor. . . .We should believe the science—the facts—and avail ourselves of what the rest of the world views as a privilege."
I urge everyone, but especially the people concerned about "liberty, tyranny, freedom", etc to read it.
As another "heath care professional" has said here, doctors now put in a databasethe names of all patients who refuse a vaccination, including non patient family members. That is still going to let a lot of citizens slip through the cracks there. Maybe the CDC should set up some kind of vaccination hotline. If you hear you neighbors or coworkers saying they refused a vaccination, you can just go online and report them. Catch far more people. Just like with that terrorists stuff. Hear something, report it.
Where am I getting this from? Back in my younger days. I knew a couple who escaped Germany. They were not Jewish but neighbors reported them for speaking out against the government. Government came after them and they fled the country. So now our government can round up our own citizens for "non compliance" too.
What you are calling for is basically the same idea, just for a different reason.
You asked for proof because you stated that immunized moms didn't pass on antibodies to their babies and I said that was incorrect. No, you didn't want to look it up. You could never find anything to support that. Traditionally, debate requires a person making a statement to back it up. You refuse to tell us what your credentials are, but posts like that tell us a lot. You do not understand this stuff.
Enough with the demand for credentials. You have been harassing me for months about "credentials" I have asked you to stop. I know you've been told to stop yet you persist on a near daily basis.
Quote:
As for using posts from a previous thread, everything you post here is subject to that! We wouldn't be able to do it if it weren't OK.
Of course you can but it is just highly ridiculous considering your accusation towards me a few days ago because you were worried that I would share a post of yours later on. I must admit, it was a new low, you accusing me of doing something in the future. To break it down even further, you were angry with me based on something you conjured up in your imagination. And as it turns out, it's something that you yourself do yourself. Very interesting and very hypocritical.
Back to the actual topic that this thread is about. Just because the law allows the government to force vaccines on people does not make it right. It's something that should be used with caution. The current measles outbreak does not warrant the extreme reaction of force. In my state, the state reps stand on different sides of this. Some want to make exemptions more difficult to obtain while others want to make parents rights more entrenched. I stand on the side of freedom.
I do agree with another thing that poppy said about the pro vax extreme and making people even less likely to vaccinate due to their overzealous behavior. I do think that their extreme attitude will backfire and cause the opposite of what they hope for.
Oh. My. God! We've already shown how much treating vaccine preventable diseases vs treating vaccine adverse events cost in Colorado in 2013. 100X as much money was spent on the former. You may search my posts for the links.
Here's a good article for all the "liberty" people: I've Seen A Measles Outbreak; It's Not Something We Want To Risk By Denigrating Vaccines - Forbes "I appreciate the need to stand up for personal freedom and defend our liberties. But in the case of a highly infectious and highly contagious disease, the “choice” we are defending is one that allows neighbor to harm neighbor. . . .We should believe the science—the facts—and avail ourselves of what the rest of the world views as a privilege."
I urge everyone, but especially the people concerned about "liberty, tyranny, freedom", etc to read it.
Tell that to all the healthcare workers that brought Ebola home would ya. And all the immigrants bringing scabies in, and all the people in America that think waiting rooms at medical offices and hospitals are a good idea. Or to those moms who send their kids to school sick pumped up on advil, or when you go to work as a nurse with the flu because you need a job. Freedom trumps the spread of illness. Travel, I could go on but....why.
We couldn't function if it didn't. If its good for the goose then, its good for the gander. If you mandate vaccines then start mandating it all. Otherwise we take the chance that most people will do the right thing. We have a high volunteer vaccine rate
No need to deny choice. We allow freedom to trump over bigger risks to public health than this threat ever has. We have a much higher rate of people getting shot and guns are still for sale. This is America, like it or not.
I only talk to one person and one thread at a time, I don't see the need. I will do it when I need to respond to your long posts so you have an easier time of it then.
I misspoke.
Not multi quote (though there is no reason not to respond to more than one poster at a time), but the quote feature.
I meant to please break one quoted post into chunks and respond to each chunk rather than embedding your comment inside the original post. Like I have done here.
Quote:
I am a history professor, so I can see where we might not see eye to eye. And I don't like seeing other professors fired for misunderstandings. Which I feel might happen.
Teaching untruths is not a "misunderstanding".
Should a history professor be allowed to teach that World War II never happened?
As another "heath care professional" has said here, doctors now put in a databasethe names of all patients who refuse a vaccination, including non patient family members. That is still going to let a lot of citizens slip through the cracks there. Maybe the CDC should set up some kind of vaccination hotline. If you hear you neighbors or coworkers saying they refused a vaccination, you can just go online and report them. Catch far more people. Just like with that terrorists stuff. Hear something, report it.
Where am I getting this from? Back in my younger days. I knew a couple who escaped Germany. They were not Jewish but neighbors reported them for speaking out against the government. Government came after them and they fled the country. So now our government can round up our own citizens for "non compliance" too.
What you are calling for is basically the same idea, just for a different reason.
Enough with the demand for credentials. You have been harassing me for months about "credentials" I have asked you to stop. I know you've been told to stop yet you persist on a near daily basis.
Of course you can but it is just highly ridiculous considering your accusation towards me a few days ago because you were worried that I would share a post of yours later on. I must admit, it was a new low, you accusing me of doing something in the future. To break it down even further, you were angry with me based on something you conjured up in your imagination. And as it turns out, it's something that you yourself do yourself. Very interesting and very hypocritical.
Back to the actual topic that this thread is about. Just because the law allows the government to force vaccines on people does not make it right. It's something that should be used with caution. The current measles outbreak does not warrant the extreme reaction of force. In my state, the state reps stand on different sides of this. Some want to make exemptions more difficult to obtain while others want to make parents rights more entrenched. I stand on the side of freedom.
I do agree with another thing that poppy said about the pro vax extreme and making people even less likely to vaccinate due to their overzealous behavior. I do think that their extreme attitude will backfire and cause the opposite of what they hope for.
You know Terri, I'm starting to questions what they hope for. I think payback is more of the goal. If we can't make you you'll pay the price kind of attitude that I'm seeing is telling...
You know Terri, I'm starting to questions what they hope for. I think payback is more of the goal. If we can't make you you'll pay the price kind of attitude that I'm seeing is telling...
I only talk to one person and one thread at a time, I don't see the need. I will do it when I need to respond to your long posts so you have an easier time of it then.
I am a history professor, so I can see where we might not see eye to eye. And I don't like seeing other professors fired for misunderstandings. Which I feel might happen.
History is probably my favorite subject. I find it so much more interesting at times than I find law. My approach to law though is an unusual one. I had few classmates in law school that viewed law from a "historical perspective". I was always the one that did. One of my favorite quotations is from Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes of the U.S. Supreme Court who said: "The life of the law has not been logic, it has been experience." Holmes sums of my views very well. Its one thing to sit around and logically reason about a subject. Its another entirely, to live through some sort of calamity and always have that in the back of your mind. Such events are far more important in formulating law and policy than simply logic has been.
If you take a look at this link, you'll see its a Wikipedia article that describes the major epidemics of disease that have occurred through recorded history.
Americans were no strangers to epidemic disease. We've experienced epidemics of smallpox, measles, polio, yellow fever, and the flu. The Spanish Flu of 1918-1919 is estimated to have claimed 500,000 lives. More people died from the Spanish Flu in this country than died in World War I which had just preceded it. Holmes and other Supreme Court Justices who upheld the constitutionality of mandatory vaccination were undoubtedly moved, in part, by epidemics of disease they observed in their youth and adulthood.
Polio and influenza have taken many lives within just the last 100 years.
I submit that vaccination has done nothing less than alter the course of history for the better. As a history professor, I would hope that you would see that.
Not multi quote (though there is no reason not to respond to more than one poster at a time), but the quote feature.
I meant to please break one quoted post into chunks and respond to each chunk rather than embedding your comment inside the original post. Like I have done here.
Teaching untruths is not a "misunderstanding".
Should a history professor be allowed to teach that World War II never happened?
Ok I will try but I'm on an ipad so it might take some practice.
And, it depends on the class. Thats the misunderstanding, what that class was intending to teach. She didn't advocate for either, she herself vaccinates. It was to show conflict and choice. Many professors teach controversies. Depends on what the class objective is. It's not high school. You can drop the class, you have that right. Or don't take it in the first place.
I've ran across professionals who teach and think UFOs and God are real possibility. It runs the gamut at my University.
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That is still going to let a lot of citizens slip through the cracks there. Maybe the CDC should set up some kind of vaccination hotline. If you hear you neighbors or coworkers saying they refused a vaccination, you can just go online and report them. Catch far more people. Just like with that terrorists stuff. Hear something, report it. 
