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Old 02-09-2015, 12:44 AM
 
Location: in the mountains
1,372 posts, read 762,536 times
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NO we should not. Not when Muslims are busy protesting cartoons:
Huge crowd of Muslim protesters picket Downing Street to protest at Charlie Hebdo cartoons - Telegraph

instead of protesting ISIS. Or doing anything about ISIS. If anybody can stop ISIS, it would be OTHER Muslims. The Koran teaches them that infidels are similar to animals. So who would they listen to or respect, except for another Muslim?

If anything, we should put pressure on Muslims to do something about ISIS, instead of them continually denying that it is the real Islam. That's funny because ISIS believes they are practicing the real Islam. And hundreds of Muslims who grew up in Western countries left to join ISIS.
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Old 02-09-2015, 12:44 AM
 
3,806 posts, read 5,005,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
First of all, there's a generation of young Muslim extremists in Iraq because we invaded their country for no reason.
Most aren't Iraqi.

Quote:
Pulling troops out didn't cause the problem, it saved American lives. When was the last time an occupying force changed an entire country and ended bloodshed? Spoiler: Never. Never ever ever.
The point of leaving behind a residual force was not and never was to effect an immediate, lasting change in Iraq. It was to backstop the Iraqi military so you wouldn't have half the country turn into a failed state that would be gathering place a rallying point for ISlamic extremists from around the globe which has already necessitated the U.S. sending soldiers back to Iraq to try to rewin a battle that had already been won. Since no one in charge is serious about it other than maybe Jordan and Assad the problem will just end up festering. So now you can add the Islamic State and Yemen to Libya and Boko Haram's little slice of Africa as one of these ISlamic extremists statelets. We've seen what happened when all they had was Afghanistan, but unfortunately not enough people in the West remember that.

And to the point if the Allies had pulled out of the Axis countries four or five years after WWII, Italy would've turned into a General mess, Germany would have had far right parties come to power again, and Japan might have turned out okay but only because everyone still would have listened to Hirohito.
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Old 02-09-2015, 01:00 AM
 
Location: West Hollywood
3,196 posts, read 2,357,372 times
Reputation: 5262
Hold on, you think that American military bases in Germany and Italy prevented those countries from falling apart or trying to conquer the world again?
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Old 02-09-2015, 01:28 AM
 
Location: Clown School
9,999 posts, read 4,235,224 times
Reputation: 11553
No. Worry only about defending US territory itself, if they try anything here. The US wastes enough money and energy trying to be the political/morality police of the world. Meddling would just give them an excuse to escalate things.
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Old 02-09-2015, 01:45 AM
 
Location: Clown School
9,999 posts, read 4,235,224 times
Reputation: 11553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2 View Post
This is a war that cannot be fought and WON with military might. Radical Islam is an course Promoted by a few OLDER Clerics or whatever they are called in that part of the World. These older Imams, Mullahs, Clerics etc have convinced millions of their followers that they have an instant ticket to Paradise if they kill INFIDELS and are killed in doing so. Killing these misguided followers by the thousands will never stop them! Their leaders have convinced them that GOD will reward them instantly if they die in their cause.

In my opinion there are only TWO ways that radical Islamists can be defeated and neither way is Politically Correct.The first way would be to undertake massive COVERT operations to kill or even better discredit the OLDER Clerics spreading this false promise. This would require a significant amount of intelligence assets that we currently do not have. This method would be cost effective but it would take TIME. Time that we may not have.

The best way would be to give these people a BETTER answer. IOW convert them to Christianity! However this method would provoke many of our own citizens and leaders to anger. One small ship stationed off shore in the Persian Gulf broadcasting the message of Christ would be much more cost effective than dozens of B-1 Bombers.
Or better yet, convince them that religion is illogical, and how much better life would be without religion. Of course, this is completely unrealistic, because if anyone tried to park a ship there to preach non-theism, it would be destroyed before the next Islamic prayer time.

Maybe reaching them online, in Arabic/Kurdish/Farsi/etc could be a start? Obviously it isn't the end all be all, but the smallest sparks can start a forest fire. Get people skeptical, get people thinking, get people wanting more for themselves and their future.
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Old 02-09-2015, 01:58 AM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,869 posts, read 13,660,039 times
Reputation: 8987
Quote:
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
When was the last time an occupying force changed an entire country and ended bloodshed? Spoiler: Never. Never ever ever.

Allied Occupation of Germany, 1945-52


But I agree that this is "the exception that proves the rule."
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Old 02-09-2015, 03:09 AM
 
Location: Oregon
796 posts, read 1,337,748 times
Reputation: 794
Quote:
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
It's not like the Bible is any less bloody and brutal than the Quran. More people have been killed in the name of Christ than Allah. These people are extremists because of how and where they've been raised. Most of them can't even read so Islam is just an excuse to act out violently and join in with groups that seem to have all the answers. Just like gangs, really. Converting nuts to Christianity would just result in Christian nuts.
wow, how nonfactual can you get.
first off,the Old Testament of the Bible had direct and specific commands from God on specific strategies for specific military moments in time regarding specific geographical areas. After each of those moments, those specific tactical commands no longer applied.
BUT the muslims' religious book has got open calls for conquest which to this day have apparently never ended.
Secondly,the entire 1400 year existence of islam has racked up something like 270,000,000 dead bodies all murdered in the name of islamic conquest or jihad.
Christianity certainly NEVER engaged in anything even remotely close to that, certainly not in the name of Christ. And besides, there were no Christians in the Old Testament. Those people were israelites. Just fyi.
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Old 02-09-2015, 06:07 AM
 
192 posts, read 184,774 times
Reputation: 198
What 'we' should do ..*white people* is pay more ****ing attention. NO WMDs in Iraq, no AQ in Iraq that could operate, no extremists under Saddam. AIPAC shills, 'liberal' Jews like NYT, Maher pushed Iraq war for one thing: Israel's protection. We invaded a country and disbanded it's military...imagine someone disbanding the US military, and seeing armed Southeners and Drug Cartels go at it due to the lack of law enforcement. We are the main impetus for this ****t.

We can't secure our own ****ing border with cartels, beheadings and IEDs going off, why get more involved in a region where our foreign policy has been an utter failure.

Last edited by zetsui; 02-09-2015 at 07:18 AM..
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Old 02-09-2015, 12:10 PM
 
Location: FROM Dixie, but IN SoCal
3,491 posts, read 5,301,108 times
Reputation: 3737
Some folks, with pretty impressive credentials & track records, think that ISIS is trying to sucker us into yet another ground war in the Middle East. In my decidedly personal opinion, the best way to defeat ISIS is to:

FIRST AND FOREMOST, quit all of our internal political bickering and back-biting, so that we present a unified front to the world. For example, rather than listening to what the Republican/Fox News "talking heads" have been saying, take a step back and actually listen to what Obama really said. He's not one of my favorites either, but the cadre of Character Assassins at the Republican Party and Fox News are doing the world a significant disservice.

SECOND, cut off the ISIS supplies of money, materiel and manpower. We can do this without putting even one boot on the ground.

THIRD, provide full support (intelligence, weapons, equipment, training, "consulting/coaching", etc.) to the nations who are or will be affected by a strong ISIS. We can do this by putting only a very few boots on the ground. Because this is shaping up to be a conventional ground war, those "boots" will be in fairly secure rear areas.

FOURTH, abandon our preconceived notions about which nations are "Allies" and which are "Enemies." Iran, a relatively powerful economic and military force in the region, has offered their assistance. Rather than rejecting said offer out of hand, perhaps the world should be looking at how to use this resource to mutual benefit. (I don't trust them either, but 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend', at least for now...) Again, we can do this without putting even one boot on the ground.

Last edited by Nighteyes; 02-09-2015 at 12:23 PM..
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Old 02-09-2015, 12:17 PM
 
10 posts, read 6,989 times
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No, don't fight ISIS, because it's too late.
Obama's government is forcing our seventh graders in Florida to study Islam, and write about Allah as a form of 'education'.
It is way too late to change the direction (radical Islam) that the US is going.
My advice is, move out now.
before you are forced to attend a mosque and read the Quran.
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