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Old 02-11-2015, 08:55 AM
 
5,188 posts, read 3,011,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHAIN5 View Post
Well, there are other threads discussing that.

If I have interpreted the OP's intent correctly, s/he is interested in the integrity of the industry and used the MMR vaccine lawsuit as a starting point for discussion.
I am glad to see the issue of integrity brought up again. This is my major concern as the focus on the issue of vaccines alone fails to provide a larger picture that impacts us globally.

I understand the temptation to think well, it works, so who cares if the data was fudged? But the implications of sacrificing scientific truth for business success are chilling and have wide-reaching effects on a world which has always depended on the integrity of the scientific method.

There is quite bit of information on the internet about how the peer-review process has been corrupted by government sponsorship (money) and cronyism. This is the larger issue here, I think, and worth some reading time. This article from the NY Times is one of multitudes exploring the issue:



Hank Campbell: The Corruption of Peer Review Is Harming Scientific Credibility - WSJ

Edited to add: I see upon posting the link that the Times wants money for a subscription. Surprise. Try googling it instead or google the "corruption of science" for a large choice of reading material, some goofy and some credible, as usual.
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Old 02-11-2015, 12:07 PM
 
Location: UP of Michigan
1,766 posts, read 2,006,137 times
Reputation: 5706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar View Post
I am glad to see the issue of integrity brought up again. This is my major concern as the focus on the issue of vaccines alone fails to provide a larger picture that impacts us globally.

I understand the temptation to think well, it works, so who cares if the data was fudged? But the implications of sacrificing scientific truth for business success are chilling and have wide-reaching effects on a world which has always depended on the integrity of the scientific method.

There is quite bit of information on the internet about how the peer-review process has been corrupted by government sponsorship (money) and cronyism. This is the larger issue here, I think, and worth some reading time. This article from the NY Times is one of multitudes exploring the issue:



Hank Campbell: The Corruption of Peer Review Is Harming Scientific Credibility - WSJ

Edited to add: I see upon posting the link that the Times wants money for a subscription. Surprise. Try googling it instead or google the "corruption of science" for a large choice of reading material, some goofy and some credible, as usual.
And, at the risk of pushing the limit of this supposedly apolitical thread, corps and govt are melding due to campaign funding and appointment of reg committees chaired by industry insiders and the promise of lucrative positions for our public servants after office. You are correct, follow the money! Much debate is ongoing about data how should taxpayer funded research be monetized by private corps.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK54304/#ch4.r3"In the words of the NCVHS, ďErosion of trust in the health-care system may occur when there is divergence between what individuals reasonably expect health data to be used for and when uses are made for other purposes without their knowledge and permissionĒ (NCVHS, 2007). A system that tolerates a lack of trust and the exposure of patients to discrimination, embarrassment, or stigma (NCVHS, 2007) will face reactions that compromise individual care and distort the data required for outcomes research."
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Old 02-12-2015, 03:06 PM
 
468 posts, read 432,728 times
Reputation: 1114
Default who are you calling idiots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesster View Post
Whenever I see/hear someone use the words "big pharma" it's a pretty good indicator to disregard anything that comes next.

There are tons of different individuals and companies in the pharmaceuticals industry, and they are in no way, shape or form a hive mind.

These idiots rail against clinically proven drugs, then pop untested herbal pills that aren't even required to contain what it says on the bottle.
Big Pharma Manufacturers


Who Is Big Pharma?

When it comes to drugs taken and devices used by the American public, a handful of parent companies come into view ......taken from the article above. Big Pharma = Parent Company aka is a correct terminology.



and then there is this:

Making Money from Addiction: 30 Million Americans On Antidepressants. Twenty Facts on America

It is all ABOUT money and pushing drugs for these companies. A co-worker is on 15 meds with what started out as an enlarged prostate three years ago. Give me a break!! every other person you see is on Coumadin or some other drug. Give me a break. Doctors have the American people popping prescripts like candy. The American public looks terribly unhealthy. Some of them look like walking zombies from being bloated with edema from drugs or racoon eyes from drugs. Young people look like walking blimps. Doctors have become snake oil salesmen for these big pharmas who compensate them with vacations called seminars, and other perks.
Go take a look at some old game shows from the 1950s NOBODY looks out of shape or a face that looks like a bloated blimp with vacant eyes. And the CEOs? they used to be "millioners" now they are billioneers. All within the last 15 years. The autistic and cancer ridden kids? UNHEARD of in the 40s/50s now it is rampant. This does not take a genius to figure out, by connecting the dots.
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Old 02-12-2015, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,535 posts, read 26,155,710 times
Reputation: 26537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron1022 View Post
Big Pharma Manufacturers


Who Is Big Pharma?

When it comes to drugs taken and devices used by the American public, a handful of parent companies come into view ......taken from the article above. Big Pharma = Parent Company aka is a correct terminology.



and then there is this:

Making Money from Addiction: 30 Million Americans On Antidepressants. Twenty Facts on America

It is all ABOUT money and pushing drugs for these companies. A co-worker is on 15 meds with what started out as an enlarged prostate three years ago. Give me a break!! every other person you see is on Coumadin or some other drug. Give me a break. Doctors have the American people popping prescripts like candy. The American public looks terribly unhealthy. Some of them look like walking zombies from being bloated with edema from drugs or racoon eyes from drugs. Young people look like walking blimps. Doctors have become snake oil salesmen for these big pharmas who compensate them with vacations called seminars, and other perks.
Go take a look at some old game shows from the 1950s NOBODY looks out of shape or a face that looks like a bloated blimp with vacant eyes. And the CEOs? they used to be "millioners" now they are billioneers. All within the last 15 years. The autistic and cancer ridden kids? UNHEARD of in the 40s/50s now it is rampant. This does not take a genius to figure out, by connecting the dots.
The incidence of most cancers is not increasing. Of those that are, cancers due to human papillomavirus can be prevented by vaccination and melanoma can be reduced by avoiding sun exposure and tanning beds. "Pills" have nothing to do with it. The increased numbers of some cancers are due to the simple fact that there are more of us and we are living longer (a fact that belies your contention that we are a sick country.)

Cancers with increasing incidence trends in the United States: 1999... - PubMed - NCBI

Fewer people are dying of strokes, heart attacks, and diabetes due to safe, effective, mostly cheap, medications. Those folks on Coumadin are some of them.

Drug companies used to pay doctors to attend seminars. Not any more. They cannot even give away pens and post it notes.

Being fat and out of shape is not due to Big Pharma. It's due to eating too much and not exercising.

The autistic kids were there. My DH's best childhood friend has Asperger's. He's in his early 70s. It just was not called that then. The really severely affected kids were institutionalized as "mentally retarded" or kept behind closed doors at home or just called "slow". They were there, though.

Perhaps the geniuses are the folks that invent those medications.
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Old 02-18-2015, 01:07 PM
 
468 posts, read 432,728 times
Reputation: 1114
Default says you

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
The incidence of most cancers is not increasing. Of those that are, cancers due to human papillomavirus can be prevented by vaccination and melanoma can be reduced by avoiding sun exposure and tanning beds. "Pills" have nothing to do with it. The increased numbers of some cancers are due to the simple fact that there are more of us and we are living longer (a fact that belies your contention that we are a sick country.)

Cancers with increasing incidence trends in the United States: 1999... - PubMed - NCBI

Fewer people are dying of strokes, heart attacks, and diabetes due to safe, effective, mostly cheap, medications. Those folks on Coumadin are some of them.

Drug companies used to pay doctors to attend seminars. Not any more. They cannot even give away pens and post it notes.

Being fat and out of shape is not due to Big Pharma. It's due to eating too much and not exercising.

The autistic kids were there. My DH's best childhood friend has Asperger's. He's in his early 70s. It just was not called that then. The really severely affected kids were institutionalized as "mentally retarded" or kept behind closed doors at home or just called "slow". They were there, though.

Perhaps the geniuses are the folks that invent those medications.
No, being fat is not about too much eating and not enough exercise. It has everything to do with processed food that the body cannot break down or when it becomes sugar/glucose collecting, and becoming a toxin to the body that makes major organs deficient. And you can exercise your butt off it won't matter because soon as you put food in your mouth which you will because muscles demand food.....the toxic food is going to turn to sugar, which your damaged organs cannot break down and eliminate, and the fat storing cycle starts again.

The reason I said go back to 1950s films is because those people were NATURALLY SLIM WITHOUT GOING TO THE GYM. Those people did not live on fifty pills for one malady. And they did not eat GMO or processed food.

WE HAVE in nature natural medicines. IN fact nature is one big pharmacy. There is not one herb out there that will not cure human malady. Synthetic drugs is just re-inventing the wheel. IT is the abuse of those medicines by the doctors and the big pharmas. That are the huge problem.
Why would you put on the market a medicine and at the same time tell the public OH BTW ...we can fix this BUT it might destroy that!!!!! THAT IS NOT MEDICINE. Don't sell it!!! Oh, wait!! there goes your paycheck and the CEO yacht, right??? Those so called medicines CREATE patients and keeps the pharma/stocks/paychecks rolling in. That does not happen with NATURES medicine, because natures medicine works WITHOUT destroying another organ or causing problems. In proper doses, you don't need a disclaimer with natural herbs because it is not designed by the "Grand Designer/God" to cause other problems.
Look If the industry worked for the common good I would not have anything to say. I believe in the free market and innovation. Make a lot of money and live it up. But this industry has been turned into something seriously evil. check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ9_zWpfiBA = Big Pharmas Secret Global Eugenics agenda.
Peace and out.
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Old 02-18-2015, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,535 posts, read 26,155,710 times
Reputation: 26537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron1022 View Post
No, being fat is not about too much eating and not enough exercise. It has everything to do with processed food that the body cannot break down or when it becomes sugar/glucose collecting, and becoming a toxin to the body that makes major organs deficient. And you can exercise your butt off it won't matter because soon as you put food in your mouth which you will because muscles demand food.....the toxic food is going to turn to sugar, which your damaged organs cannot break down and eliminate, and the fat storing cycle starts again.

The reason I said go back to 1950s films is because those people were NATURALLY SLIM WITHOUT GOING TO THE GYM. Those people did not live on fifty pills for one malady. And they did not eat GMO or processed food.

WE HAVE in nature natural medicines. IN fact nature is one big pharmacy. There is not one herb out there that will not cure human malady. Synthetic drugs is just re-inventing the wheel. IT is the abuse of those medicines by the doctors and the big pharmas. That are the huge problem.
Why would you put on the market a medicine and at the same time tell the public OH BTW ...we can fix this BUT it might destroy that!!!!! THAT IS NOT MEDICINE. Don't sell it!!! Oh, wait!! there goes your paycheck and the CEO yacht, right??? Those so called medicines CREATE patients and keeps the pharma/stocks/paychecks rolling in. That does not happen with NATURES medicine, because natures medicine works WITHOUT destroying another organ or causing problems. In proper doses, you don't need a disclaimer with natural herbs because it is not designed by the "Grand Designer/God" to cause other problems.
Look If the industry worked for the common good I would not have anything to say. I believe in the free market and innovation. Make a lot of money and live it up. But this industry has been turned into something seriously evil.
Peace and out.
Folks back in the 1950s smoked like chimneys. That kept many skinny.

Folks back in the 1950s mostly ate at home, and they ate less. By eating less, they maintained weight without the need for exercise beyond the activities of daily living, though those activities were, for many, more strenuous than today. They had no computers and only three TV channels to watch.

http://www.usda.gov/factbook/chapter2.pdf

"Americans at the beginning of the 21st century are consuming more food and several hundred more calories per person per day than did their counterparts in the late 1950s (when per capita calorie consumption was at the lowest level in the last century), or even in the 1970s. The aggregate food supply in 2000 provided 3,800 calories per person per day, 500 calories above the 1970 level and 800 calories above the record low in 1957 and 1958 (fig. 2-1)."

An interesting bit of trivia is that the size of an American dinner plate has increased 25% since 1900.

How the size of dinner plates affect portion control

"Since the early 1900s, the size of a normal American dinner plate has become at least 25% larger. In the 1960s, plates were roughly 9 inches in diameter. In the 1980s, they grew to around 10 inches. By the year 2000, the average dinner plate was 11 inches in diameter, and now, it’s not unusual to find dishes that are 12 inches or larger. And that’s aside from restaurant plates, which can sometimes resemble small boats! And of course, the larger the plate, the calories the food that’s on it can really add up."

People are fat now because they eat too much.

Billions of dollars are spent annually on herbs, virtually none of which have been shown to have any beneficial effect at all.
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Old 02-18-2015, 02:47 PM
 
468 posts, read 432,728 times
Reputation: 1114
Default Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Folks back in the 1950s smoked like chimneys. That kept many skinny.

Folks back in the 1950s mostly ate at home, and they ate less. By eating less, they maintained weight without the need for exercise beyond the activities of daily living, though those activities were, for many, more strenuous than today. They had no computers and only three TV channels to watch.

http://www.usda.gov/factbook/chapter2.pdf

"Americans at the beginning of the 21st century are consuming more food and several hundred more calories per person per day than did their counterparts in the late 1950s (when per capita calorie consumption was at the lowest level in the last century), or even in the 1970s. The aggregate food supply in 2000 provided 3,800 calories per person per day, 500 calories above the 1970 level and 800 calories above the record low in 1957 and 1958 (fig. 2-1)."

An interesting bit of trivia is that the size of an American dinner plate has increased 25% since 1900.

How the size of dinner plates affect portion control

"Since the early 1900s, the size of a normal American dinner plate has become at least 25% larger. In the 1960s, plates were roughly 9 inches in diameter. In the 1980s, they grew to around 10 inches. By the year 2000, the average dinner plate was 11 inches in diameter, and now, itís not unusual to find dishes that are 12 inches or larger. And thatís aside from restaurant plates, which can sometimes resemble small boats! And of course, the larger the plate, the calories the food thatís on it can really add up."

People are fat now because they eat too much.

Billions of dollars are spent annually on herbs, virtually none of which have been shown to have any beneficial effect at all.
They ate less back then? You are not Italian or French are you? Sunday dinners are a huge affair and yes the mother cooked and stuffed you like a turkey. "Eat your food some people in Biafra have nothing to eat!"

My grandmother grew up on a farm in Europe, she was a herbalist. I never went to a doctor and to this day I don't. People used to come to her for "cures." Wanted an abortive she had one. Have gout? she had a cure for that too. She died of a broken hip fell on the ice at 86 , she was constantly doing something. You name it she had a cure. She picked the ingredients or brought them. If she lived in 1600s Salem Mass she would have been burned at the stake that is how good she was.

If your food is processed it takes 75% + vitamins out of your food. When you eat it is not the bulk that the body wants it is the VITAMINS in the bulk. If the vitamins are not there the body is going to demand more bulk hence you eat and get fat. YOU EAT for the VITAMINS. Your body triggers hunger pangs when it is lacking some kind of vitamin that fuels the cells.
There are lot of FAT people in the work force on their feet all day long or on the move all day long(that is exercise) and so by your logic why are they fat?

Speaking of herbs: WALMART IS SELLING FAKE VITAMINS. And that is why they "don't work."
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/0...etailers/?_r=0

Your coffee? Has been found to have saw dust or chicory substitute. YOUR GOVERNMENT AND AGENCIES ARE DEFRAUDING AND LYING TO YOU TO KEEP CORPORATIONS ROLLING IN $$$$$ WHICH THE POLITICIANS SEE IN CAMPAING CONTRIBUTIONS. Wake up and smell the crapola
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Old 02-18-2015, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,535 posts, read 26,155,710 times
Reputation: 26537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron1022 View Post
They ate less back then? You are not Italian or French are you? Sunday dinners are a huge affair and yes the mother cooked and stuffed you like a turkey. "Eat your food some people in Biafra have nothing to eat!"

My grandmother grew up on a farm in Europe, she was a herbalist. I never went to a doctor and to this day I don't. People used to come to her for "cures." Wanted an abortive she had one. Have gout? she had a cure for that too. She died of a broken hip fell on the ice at 86 , she was constantly doing something. You name it she had a cure. She picked the ingredients or brought them. If she lived in 1600s Salem Mass she would have been burned at the stake that is how good she was.

If your food is processed it takes 75% + vitamins out of your food. When you eat it is not the bulk that the body wants it is the VITAMINS in the bulk. If the vitamins are not there the body is going to demand more bulk hence you eat and get fat. YOU EAT for the VITAMINS. Your body triggers hunger pangs when it is lacking some kind of vitamin that fuels the cells.
There are lot of FAT people in the work force on their feet all day long or on the move all day long(that is exercise) and so by your logic why are they fat?

Speaking of herbs: WALMART IS SELLING FAKE VITAMINS. And that is why they "don't work."
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/0...etailers/?_r=0

Your coffee? Has been found to have saw dust or chicory substitute. YOUR GOVERNMENT AND AGENCIES ARE DEFRAUDING AND LYING TO YOU TO KEEP CORPORATIONS ROLLING IN $$$$$ WHICH THE POLITICIANS SEE IN CAMPAING CONTRIBUTIONS. Wake up and smell the crapola
Yes, people ate less. I showed you how much less in my previous post. Being "stuffed" 60 years ago was no way comparable to being "stuffed" now.

What's in the herbal products in a health food store? Who knows? They are probably made by the same companies that sold the fake products in your link, just under a different label.

People are fat because they eat too much and do not exercise enough.

By the way, your understanding of nutrition is a bit off. You cannot live on vitamins alone.
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