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Old 02-10-2015, 06:12 AM
 
2,442 posts, read 1,795,692 times
Reputation: 4644

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cindersslipper View Post
just like to say im disappointed, as an Australian I had hoped this thread was about Big Parmagianas, or schnittys as we like to call them.
Oooh, I'd love to stop in at a pub for a counterie.
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:03 AM
 
685 posts, read 531,006 times
Reputation: 1003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron1022 View Post
It is all about money. That is what they are hiding. They WANT you to get sick. it fuels the "healthcare" industry and the big pharmas, that the politicians are all getting very rich from, via the stock Xchange. Very good documentation on this topic. Infowars.com

Did you know that congress exempted themselves from "insider trading rules?" Go read up on Feinstein and her husband or Pelosi. Obama and Blagojevich were selling or trying to sell cheap knock off drugs to the State of Ill at taxpayer expense by brokering a deal with a Canadian pharma company. Google it. The info may still be on line.
Never in history did America EVER let sick people in. Today infectious people are let in by this government with the obvious results. It does not take a genius to figure out what the administration is doing. Ever notice how middle class politicians at the end of their carreer are filthy rich? Connect the dots.
It's so tiring posting this stuff that's so obvious to me and others. Then there's a staunch (I suppose as we are) group of people who just cannot, will not, and refuse to see what's going on out here. Why that is so, I just don't know but I sure can speculate !

I knew about congress are exempted from insider trading rules. What another atrocity. Thanks for a breath of sanity here, Bryon1022.
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:47 AM
 
3,513 posts, read 4,355,224 times
Reputation: 4586
Quote:
Originally Posted by AksarbeN View Post
Itís all about the drug industry and their failure to be honest with the people and the government. Itís bad enough that they are dishonest and worse with the fees they charge for their meds sold in the US. Honesty isnít difficult if youíre a moral corporation or drug manufacture.
So you are in favor or vaccinating one's children on schedule.
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Looking over your shoulder
29,745 posts, read 26,770,148 times
Reputation: 78941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdeen View Post
So you are in favor or vaccinating one's children on schedule.
I don’t object to anyone who wants to vaccinate or not. I believe people have the personal freedom of choice. However nothing in that quote indicates my preference.

Honesty in the drug companies is most important to me and it appears there is a failure to provide that. Also the unbelievable prices charged for medicine in the US compared to Canada or Mexico….. but that’s another story.

Last edited by AksarbeN; 02-10-2015 at 08:11 AM..
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Old 02-10-2015, 08:30 AM
 
3,513 posts, read 4,355,224 times
Reputation: 4586
Quote:
Originally Posted by AksarbeN View Post
I don’t object to anyone who wants to vaccinate or not. I believe people have the personal freedom of choice. However nothing in that quote indicates my preference.
Because of the nature of your OP, you can see why I might want clarification, right? Of all the things you could have chosen to call out pharmaceutical companies on, why, specifically, this one in particular? Surely there are far more egregious actions on their part that would have been worthy of a thread. Why an alleged - and minor, misrepresentation of the efficacy of a vaccine that shows, overall, a very high efficacy?

Of course they shouldn't pad the information at all, and it was done, specifically, to maintain a monopoly on a highly effective vaccination, assuming, of course, that they are found guilty - which, they probably are. But that doesn't mean that the vaccine is bad. And given the current climate, why would you want to imbue the discussion of vaccination by choosing a topic so incendiary?

Did you also start threads on Clozaril, trazodone, or any other drug that was actually found to cause injury?

Why this one? Why vaccines?

Quote:
Also the unbelievable prices charged for medicine in the US compared to Canada or Mexico….. but that’s another story.
Yes, that is another story. But since you brought it up...

The US pays for other countries to obtain drugs by charging high prices here. When R & D can be hundreds of millions of dollars to bring a drug to market - not to mention all the drugs that never make it to market - someone has to pay for it. So the US picks up the tab. As usual. By doing this, we offset the prices for other countries to obtain the drug cheaply. Who else is going to invest that kind of money in drug development? Canada? Mexico? They are getting these pharmaceuticals by piggybacking on us. Then cry foul over the prices here. I'd rather they just said thank you.

Last edited by Everdeen; 02-10-2015 at 08:38 AM..
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Old 02-10-2015, 08:36 AM
 
Location: UP of Michigan
1,766 posts, read 2,003,232 times
Reputation: 5706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl View Post
I am old enough that my childhood happened before there were as many vaccines as there are now. I HAD measles (both kinds), chicken pox (the worst), and mumps. So did my siblings and we missed weeks of school in multiple years being quarantined for these illnesses ... in addition to the fact that being so sick when you are just a kid is terrible. I never had whooping cough or polio, but I know people who had those diseases, too. I can vividly remember how joyful my parents were when there was a polio vaccine we could get. Doctors brought the vaccine to a school gym in my town. My parents took us there and we waited in line for long time to be vaccinated. Drs. Salk and Sabin were heroes to my parents generation.

I don't have children but my siblings have multiples. All of my nieces and nephews are vaccinated. Guess what? No diseases, no side effects from the vaccines. Autism is a terrible thing but I know full well there were kids in my school who were autistic when I was a child ó there just wasn't a name for it back then. And they couldn't have gotten that way from vaccines since they weren't vaccinated.

As for the flu, I worked for 18 years for a Fortune 100 corporation. They gave all of us employees free flu shots and we were expected to have a doctor's written excuse to be exempted. The first year I stopped working there, I failed to get a shot and I got the flu. That was the very last time I didn't get a shot. I used to hear the stories that my paternal grandmother lost her husband and two of her four children to the flu epidemic of 1918. I couldn't imagine flu being bad enough to kill people until I had it that year.

I'm sure these drugs do cause some trouble for some people ... all of us are very different and have uniquenesses about our bodies. But I truly believe vaccines and flu shots have saved millions of lives and saved hundreds of millions of children worldwide from bad suffering. It's not an excuse for huge corporations to take financial advantage of We the People. But I refuse to believe they are intentionally careless about killing us.
My father died from polio at a young age. I remember waiting in along line in a gym too. Your post is almost a synopsis of my memories of the excitement and thankfulness for the vaccine. Several classmates were crippled by the disease.
I am sceptical of of corp or big govt programs but it distresses me when I see a dismissal of science and education as being an elitist pursuit. One by one we should help develop a culture of integrity. I need to remind myself that although corps are NOT people, they are composed of individuals each with their own ethics. That helps ease the fear of conspiracy and can inspire trust in others. Vaccinations are important to our health and safety.
(now I'm going to grab my gun and put my tinfoil hat back on)http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/ma...anted=all&_r=0
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:37 AM
 
128 posts, read 118,672 times
Reputation: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by AksarbeN View Post
Itís all about the drug industry and their failure to be honest with the people and the government. Itís bad enough that they are dishonest and worse with the fees they charge for their meds sold in the US. Honesty isnít difficult if youíre a moral corporation or drug manufacture.

I will have to respond to Suzy Q later, as I do not have the time now.

However, I will briefly add a link here that relates to your comments, AksarbeN.

Drug Companies & Doctors: A Story of Corruption by Marcia Angell | The New York Review of Books

This article was written by Dr. Marcia Angell (she also has a book or two). She is a former Editor in Chief for the New England Journal of Medicine, and is now a Senior Lecturer in the Department of Global Health and Social Medicine at Harvard Medical School.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I will take her credentials over anyone else on this forum.

This is an excellent article! If anyone would choose to read only one link on this thread, I wish it would be this one. If I could, I would copy and paste the whole thing. Barring that, here are a few quotes I will paste:

Quote:
...It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that
is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative
medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached
slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of TheNew
England Journal of Medicine.
BAM!

Quote:
...So many reforms would be necessary to restore integrity to clinical research
and medical practice that they cannot be summarized briefly. Many would involve
congressional legislation and changes in the FDA, including its drug approval
process...
POW!

Quote:
...Breaking the dependence of the medical profession on the pharmaceutical
industry will take more than appointing committees and other gestures. It will
take a sharp break from an extremely lucrative pattern of behavior. But if the
medical profession does not put an end to this corruption voluntarily, it will
lose the confidence of the public, and the government (not just Senator
Grassley) will step in and impose regulation. No one in medicine wants that.
OUCH!

(bold, mine). Just what lowly, nobody me has been talking about...

This literally makes me feel sick to my stomach...but, no worries, I'm sure there's a pill for that...
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,476 posts, read 26,078,274 times
Reputation: 26426
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHAIN5 View Post

Drug Companies & Doctors: A Story of Corruption by Marcia Angell | The New York Review of Books

This article was written by Dr. Marcia Angell (she also has a book or two). She is a former Editor in Chief for the New England Journal of Medicine, and is now a Senior Lecturer in the Department of Global Health and Social Medicine at Harvard Medical School.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I will take her credentials over anyone else on this forum.
Meh. It's Angell's opinion, and not everyone agrees with her.

https://cei.org/op-eds-and-articles/...-marcia-angell

"A spirited diatribe can educate and entertain, but in The Truth About the Drug Companies, Dr. Angell does neither. Her diagnoses are wrong, and her remedies -- which are reminiscent of the government controls and centralized planning of the old Soviet Union -- are far worse than the disease."

Marcia Angell's Attacks on Pharma Have Lost all Credibility - Forbes

"Her book attacked the industry essentially saying that it produces little innovation and that its primary mission is to exploit consumers. Thatís a pretty serious accusation. The problem with Angellís arguments is that they are rife with inaccuracies and fallacies. Furthermore, she makes no accounting for changes in the industry that have occurred over the last decade."

Marcia Angell’s Mistaken View of Pharmaceutical Innovation

"Angell makes some good points about publication bias in clinical trials and the sometimes too-close-for-comfort connections between the FDA, pharmaceutical firms, and researchers. But in making these points she misses the truly important picture. Namely that new pharmaceuticals have driven increases in life expectancy but pharmaceutical productivity is declining as the costs of discovering and bringing a new drug to market are rising rapidly (on average ~1.8 billion per each NME to reach market). In my view, the network model pursued on a global scale and a more flexible and responsive FDA, both of which Angell castigates, are among the best prospects for an increase in pharmaceutical productivity and thus for increases in future life expectancy. Nevertheless, whatever the solutions are, we need to focus on the big problem of productivity if we are to translate scientific breakthroughs into improvements in human welfare."
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:09 AM
 
3,513 posts, read 4,355,224 times
Reputation: 4586
^Not only that, but vaccine efficacy was established long before the problems with Big Pharma and research.
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:23 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
19,865 posts, read 18,308,470 times
Reputation: 7955
Manipulating those studies seems to be common, there was a similar scandal recently involving an Indian organization that tests medicine. Various medicines have been taken off the market in Europe because of that. Making money with other people's deceases and fears is a lucrative business. Those companies make billions of dollars/euros in profits every year.

I think the UN should start a program where they compile a list of the 50 or 100 most common deceases and implement a system where public organizations such as universities are hired to develop medicines. Once finished, they could be produced by governments and given to the ill for free as there would be no rights involved, just material costs and such. The initial development costs would soon be undone because public health systems would save a lot of money as they would not have to buy expensive stuff from companies anymore.
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