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Old 02-12-2015, 03:31 AM
 
38,193 posts, read 15,329,979 times
Reputation: 16848

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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd393 View Post
What's so very dangerous about guns is so many people who are very quick to justify deadly force against another human being. .....
Nope.


What is dangerous about guns is when criminals use them commit violent crime. Period.
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Old 02-12-2015, 04:11 AM
 
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,367 posts, read 1,524,514 times
Reputation: 3814
The chase may be an issue.

The fact the theif's accomplice was firing is not mentioned in people's post for some reason. Are we so pro-criminals these days that we can completely omit that fact in all this? Doesnt seem that we should. I laughed at a previous post that read: The whole thing wouldnt have happened if they didnt follow. How about, the whole thing wouldnt have happened if the thieves had stayed home that night, huh?

So, potentially there is the scenario, they gave chase hoping to find out where the vehicle would end up. The accomplice doesnt like them following and starts shooting to try to get them to give up the chase. Now, why would a criminal carry a weapon to a crime scene? For self defense, just in case the crime was interrupted maybe?

Do you deserve to have your property stolen? For the religous folks, the Bible also says, thou shalt not steal.

Do you deserve to die simply because of stealing something? No. But, where does that train of thought end up when the theif begins shooting at you? Do you have a right to defend yourself right then and there?

Would the truck have been recovered if the theives took it south of Texas? Probably not. Hence, the sense of urgency the owner felt to follow the theives.

There is nothing wrong with trying to protect your stuff. I wouldnt do it, personally - even if I was armed - but there is nothing wrong with following a theif to try to see where they are taking your stuff.

As a society, we cant support vigilante-ism, but at the same time, we werent there and cant honestly judge whether the death was intentional murder, an accident in a hail of gunfire, or the deliberate action of someone protecting their own life at the moment in question.

Its a matter for the courts and the people of Texas to deside, but the brothers lost that night no matter what the verdict - and all because a criminal desided to use a gun in the commission of a crime.
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Old 02-12-2015, 05:33 AM
 
Location: Upstate NY
30,446 posts, read 9,103,558 times
Reputation: 28991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert_The_Crocodile View Post
Mmm... uhh... no, I didn't miss that. That was quite clear.

What is not clear is what that has to do with anything I said. So I have no idea what point you think you're making.


His point was that you need to look up the definition of "murder."
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Old 02-12-2015, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Houston, TX
13,167 posts, read 7,408,610 times
Reputation: 27270
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post

There is nothing wrong with trying to protect your stuff. I wouldnt do it, personally - even if I was armed - but there is nothing wrong with following a theif to try to see where they are taking your stuff.

As a society, we cant support vigilante-ism, but at the same time, we werent there and cant honestly judge whether the death was intentional murder, an accident in a hail of gunfire, or the deliberate action of someone protecting their own life at the moment in question.

Its a matter for the courts and the people of Texas to deside, but the brothers lost that night no matter what the verdict - and all because a criminal desided to use a gun in the commission of a crime.
What I find amazing is that the thieves attempted to steal the truck at all. This case, along with others, is proof that you can't fix stupid. Most Texans are quiet, law abiding people, however, a lot of us, more than Americans living in other states I'm sure, have guns that we use to defend ourselves, home, and hearth. Therefore, people who live here and decide to risk committing crimes anyway are not playing with a full deck. Sure, they can get away with crime a lot of the time, but why risk taking an old truck (and the vehicles stolen most often are older ones with nice sound systems) to get shot and killed? Even if the thief was unarmed, taking the truck could have gotten him killed. People don't take kindly to getting their stuff stolen, no matter what state they live in.
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Old 02-12-2015, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
15,612 posts, read 9,671,076 times
Reputation: 34425
Memo to self: Never steal anything in Texas !

I think the truck owners should be reimbursed for the cost of their bullets. After all, they saved the State of Texas a whole lot of money in court costs and incarceration fees.

I have NO sympathy for people who commit crimes against hard working people simply because they are too damn lazy to go out and work like the rest of us........NONE !


Don
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Old 02-12-2015, 06:56 AM
 
38,193 posts, read 15,329,979 times
Reputation: 16848
^I would add that if the dead criminal had an estate, it should be used to cover the cost of buying the victims a new truck.
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Old 02-12-2015, 07:24 AM
 
250 posts, read 212,500 times
Reputation: 386
I guess the brothers are into grand theft auto (*the game) Wow...so a car/truck is worth more than risking your life. YIKES!
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Old 02-12-2015, 07:29 AM
 
Location: the Permian Basin
4,093 posts, read 2,824,446 times
Reputation: 5665
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that I said that. The thieves certainly are not victims.

I suggest that you re-read what I've posted here.
I should've read the entire post to which you replied. My apologies.
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Old 02-12-2015, 08:07 AM
Status: "Finally Done With C-D BYE BYE" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,947 posts, read 21,488,693 times
Reputation: 15431
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG5 View Post
Wow.


The 'tragedy' here is the one dead person, but he brought that upon himself by deciding to steal a truck from the wrong people - his fault. The others involved will reap what they sow when they are arrested and charged with felonies. That part is not up for debate. No one is disagreeing on that. We aren't discussing that 'tragedy'.

We are talking about whether or not the actions of these two brothers broke multiple laws. We are talking about whether the brothers' actions were lawful. We are talking about the brothers engaging in an action that police officers do not want you to do. We are talking about firing a weapon from one vehicle towards another one (FACT) in a public space with many retail businesses in the area. We are talking about actions that did not take place immediately after the initial crime was committed. Those are the reasons why this case will go before a grand jury.

You've yet to find a post of mine in which I said the criminals were the victims and the brothers should be charged with Murder 1.

There's a reason for that.
Why exactly is the tragedy all about the one dead thief? I don't see his death as a tragedy, it's actually a situation all of his own making.

The tragedy is that this happened in the first place. Not only is there a dead guy (his own fault) but now there's two others (as well as the dead guy's family) who'll have to live with this forever and "possibly" go to jail.
As I've said before, it seems to me people are getting tired of being the victims of crimes that will go unresolved and unpunished (or lightly punished).
Some of the sheeple are standing up for themselves.
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Old 02-12-2015, 08:37 AM
 
28,411 posts, read 14,144,643 times
Reputation: 19545
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd393 View Post
What's so very dangerous about guns is so many people who are very quick to justify deadly force against another human being. They seem to fantasize for the opportunity to use their gun against a bad guy. When armed and presented with a situation like this, it is not the time to be driven by your ego.
You're making the assumption that the brothers were focused on killing the thieves.

We know that thieves stole the truck. We know the brothers were chasing the truck while calling 911.

We are told that the thieves pointed a gun at the brothers, and at that point they made a decision to take action to defend themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashiara4life View Post
I guess the brothers are into grand theft auto (*the game) Wow...so a car/truck is worth more than risking your life. YIKES!
Actually, the criminal thieves made the CHOICE to risk lives by stealing a truck that could have been the means of a person's livelihood.

Whenever you make the CHOICE to illegally jeopardize a man's ability to provide for his family, you are risking your life.

If you are rich enough to just say, "Meh, it's just a truck, I'll get another later." You will look at it your way. If you could literally lose your ability to work due to a stolen truck, you may look at it another way.

The neighborhood where the brothers lived was a working class neighborhood.

Last edited by PedroMartinez; 02-12-2015 at 08:53 AM..
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