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Old 02-11-2015, 09:44 PM
 
7,977 posts, read 3,748,377 times
Reputation: 10439

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Quote:
Originally Posted by psr13 View Post
There are boundary restrictions to just play in the league at any Little League. It's one thing I greatly dislike about the organization. I feel that a player should be able to play in the league he (or his parents) want him to play in.
I use to think this way until I saw how out of control things can get. For older teams at the HS age it is fine to have super teams put together regardless of where the kids come from. However for young kids it just isn't right.

For example, we entered a tourney one year where our team was pretty darn good, and there were only age restrictions and the typical pitch count rules. So if the team wanted to have kids from another county or even state, they could.
There was a team owned/run by wealthy parents who were lawyers, and their kids were on the team, called the Aqua Socks. The rest of the kids were comprised from all over the place, with 3 full time PAID coaches.
The other parents and kids had their expenses paid and were treated like a professional team. When scouting this team, I noticed how harsh and strict the coaches were with the kids. They were acting as if every swing of the bat or pitch was life or death. At one point the coach wanted the batter to go opposite field which was the best thing to hope for in this situation. Well the kid hits one up the middle for a double, scoring two runs. The coach was livid and took the time to berate the kid for having failed to hit the ball opposite field. He threatened to bench him if he failed to follow instructions again in front of everyone. Needless to say we were all

When winning is put ahead of integrity, sportsmanship, instruction to improve, etc., people will go to any length. When money is no object as was the case with this team, the kids are the losers, even if they win a particular game or tourney.
Sadly I know talented kids who have given up the game because parents/coaches turned them off. I also know of kids who have been injured unnecessarily just because some idiot coach put winning above the kids health and well being.
Of course the kids future in the game is ruined, and he might have a lifetime of physical pain and emotional scars. But hey, the coach has a trophy sitting around collecting dust somewhere.

`
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:38 PM
 
14,825 posts, read 18,850,129 times
Reputation: 11793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlandochuck1 View Post
The Media went crazy about how this team was the first all black American team to win the US Championship.....Will the media be as loud about the fact they cheated to get there???
The team didn't cheat (the black kids) it was the coach that did the cheating.
The kids are just victims of the coach's irresponsibility.

But you really gotta hate black people to be happy that the news media bash a team of 12 year old kids whose championship title is taken away because of their coach.
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:45 PM
 
14,825 posts, read 18,850,129 times
Reputation: 11793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiggy-Hunta-9 View Post
This probably wouldn't have happened if it was an all-white LL team.

Sorry but it had to be said.
You are right, because the "Good ol' boy network" culture always takes care of it because it gets out to the public.
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:46 PM
 
Location: West Phoenix
769 posts, read 892,312 times
Reputation: 1894
Sorry, but the Coach is as much a part of the team as the players. The kids knew the rules, they need to learn that if you cheat, there are consequences for their actions.
It sucks for the kids, but the team cheated, the team suffers.
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
4,271 posts, read 4,994,149 times
Reputation: 3862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
I use to think this way until I saw how out of control things can get. For older teams at the HS age it is fine to have super teams put together regardless of where the kids come from. However for young kids it just isn't right.

For example, we entered a tourney one year where our team was pretty darn good, and there were only age restrictions and the typical pitch count rules. So if the team wanted to have kids from another county or even state, they could.
There was a team owned/run by wealthy parents who were lawyers, and their kids were on the team, called the Aqua Socks. The rest of the kids were comprised from all over the place, with 3 full time PAID coaches.
The other parents and kids had their expenses paid and were treated like a professional team. When scouting this team, I noticed how harsh and strict the coaches were with the kids. They were acting as if every swing of the bat or pitch was life or death. At one point the coach wanted the batter to go opposite field which was the best thing to hope for in this situation. Well the kid hits one up the middle for a double, scoring two runs. The coach was livid and took the time to berate the kid for having failed to hit the ball opposite field. He threatened to bench him if he failed to follow instructions again in front of everyone. Needless to say we were all

When winning is put ahead of integrity, sportsmanship, instruction to improve, etc., people will go to any length. When money is no object as was the case with this team, the kids are the losers, even if they win a particular game or tourney.
Sadly I know talented kids who have given up the game because parents/coaches turned them off. I also know of kids who have been injured unnecessarily just because some idiot coach put winning above the kids health and well being.
Of course the kids future in the game is ruined, and he might have a lifetime of physical pain and emotional scars. But hey, the coach has a trophy sitting around collecting dust somewhere.

`
I've known of teams like that, and those who didn't want to play for them simply didn't. I transferred high schools so I wouldn't have to play for an awful coach, and that type of thing wasn't that rare. Once again, you can't avoid that if you happen to live in an area with geographical restrictions that has a very hyped up league. (Geographical restrictions isn't my only issue with Little League. Sportsmanship (while an absolutely vital thing to learn for baseball and life) really is more important to the organization than learning how to play the sport to the best of one's ability.
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
4,271 posts, read 4,994,149 times
Reputation: 3862
Quote:
Originally Posted by West Phx Native View Post
Sorry, but the Coach is as much a part of the team as the players. The kids knew the rules, they need to learn that if you cheat, there are consequences for their actions.
It sucks for the kids, but the team cheated, the team suffers.
I'll bet the kids knew, too. Kids know if their teammates live in another school's area, and they also know what area the kids have to live in to play in a particular league.
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:53 PM
 
1,117 posts, read 976,097 times
Reputation: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas_Cabbie View Post
Jesse Jackson was just on TV asking, "is this about race?"

Honestly... What a f<>king tool.
As a black man, I hope that race didn't play a role in this. At the same time, rules are rules. I'm sure the kids are hurt by this, but something good will come out of it.
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Old 02-11-2015, 11:17 PM
 
Location: La Mesa Aka The Table
7,196 posts, read 7,537,868 times
Reputation: 7998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlandochuck1 View Post
Little league is for 8-12 year olds. It is about the children, not adults manipulating and cheating the well established rules. Little league has different standards and regulations intended to keep a level playing field for all kids. It's gotten to the point where, I will not let my youngest play Little League ever again.

Life is not fair, little league is supposed to be.
I agree
But the parents that volunteer make it about their kid and screw everybody's else kid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post


"Ratted them out" for cheating?
I have never understood your type of mentality.

Guess what, all the other teams that played by the rules were harmed, in some cases irreparably. Remember that age limits mean that all kids face a final year of eligibility. How would you like to be the best team that didn't cheat, only to have a cheating team go in your place. In the mean time all the kids who were at max age level this year, can never have another shot at going to the LLWS.

I say any teams coach/owner proved to knowingly cheat should be banned for life. That will help to clean up much of the problem. Also any parent who knowingly allowed their kid to cheat should be barred as well.

`
You have no ideal what the hell you're talking about. My Point is that, nobody plays by the Rules in youth Sports anymore.
I Coached Little league for 8 years, 3 kids and 2 All-star teams. Some where around the late 90's Little League quit being about the kids, and started being about the Parents(DaddyBall).
I can Guarantee That the, Little Leagues that Ratted them out have just as much dirt as JRW if not Probably more.
In 8 Years of Coaching I've seen, and had to:
Break up fights, Report a couple parents to CPS, Watch the board deter children of other ethnicities as so there kids can make All-Stars. Watch my youngest son not get selected to 9/10 All-Starts because, his best friends dad was a whistle blower to our little league, half the board was removed. The vice President and Parent got into a UFC style fight in front of the kids, during a game. Both parents should have been arrested but were let go by cops One of the responding cops son plays on the All-Star team in this same League.
This is all in a middle class suburban neighborhood.

For The Record, I have been beaten by a team of Cheaters.. When my Boys ask me, why did they cheat against us?
I just tell them "It's the only way they can beat you head to head, Be Proud"
Cheating scandal rocks little league championship - CBS News 8 - San Diego, CA News Station - KFMB Channel 8

In closing:
Little league's investigating committee is a complete joke. It takes way too long to get them to investigate any type cheating. Little League has been losing kids for years To Pony League and Travel Baseball and after this it's only going to lose more Kids/Families.
Little League is all about the Cash and nothing else.

Last edited by hitman619; 02-11-2015 at 11:26 PM..
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Old 02-11-2015, 11:40 PM
 
2,454 posts, read 3,274,712 times
Reputation: 4897
If only the NFL had as much integrity. I feel for the kids though.
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Old 02-12-2015, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
1,548 posts, read 1,875,039 times
Reputation: 3875
Little League rules are similar to over 30 leagues. There are ridiculous zealots in every type of team sport who must cheat to win.

I play a few different sports in over 30s leagues. Kickball is my favorite, followed by softball and Football. I totally get residency requirements. And what this team was doing was siphoning off talent from the best teams in far flung suburbs than claiming everyone was from the South Side of Chicago.

The problem is teams that are put together for the sole purpose of winning. That's fine in pros, semi-pros and college, but this is a fun sport for camaraderie and friendship and sportsmanship just like LL. In pro sports other teams have all the same rules so it's perfectly fine for every team to offer ridiculous money and go wherever they need to to find talent. With amateur stuff your supposed to take a team with talent and some issues and foster it and grow skills not get a bunch of ringers from all over the area. In all of my leagues there is that one (or 2) team(s) that takes stuff wayyyyy tooo seriously (yelling, cussing, making obscene gestures and acting like a bunch of hot-headed morons.) It's supposed to be localized fun. In my leagues it's not only that people are coming from 50 miles away it's also that a lot of these a-holes have 24 and 25 year-olds in peak physical shape on their teams: read, ringers.

My group of family, friends and church members some pushing 60 are not going to beat a bunch of 31 year olds and 25 year olds with beards. This happens in all of the leagues I play in. They go play in their league, come in 3rd and say hey we can join the over 30 league and dominate. Most the time it comes down to the brainchild of a few men who can't stand losing or ....some men want to win at any cost, no matter how silly the prize is (which in some cases is nothing but pride.) So they build these ringer all star teams to feel good about their accomplishments. Some people are always going to be one upppers at everything. Some even risk shame and embarrassment because they convince themselves they have covered their tracks and no one will figure it out (ahem..Lance.)

The sad part is they probably could have fostered the talent in their area without breaking any rules and eventually got to the world series.

White and asian teams have done this and been caught too (although most LL teams are mixed). Usually its the runner up or a rival team that rats dishonest teams too. This is a pretty common thing actually. Other Little League World Series scandals - Chicago Tribune

This is a story about a kid named Danny Almonte who was forced to go to hell because of his father and a coach. They lied about his age and his residency, its a great perspective on how some of these kids are treated. treated like little slaves to boost some old washed up guys ego.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/08/dann...e-world-series
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