U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 07-22-2015, 03:24 PM
 
3,437 posts, read 3,250,992 times
Reputation: 8072

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
And yet its so much better than what millions had -- no health system.
No, it's not. The ACA has made a bad situation worse.

- It eliminated low premium, high deductible plans, affecting millions of self-insured people who had to either pay much more money or go on the exchange and let the public pay for their plan. This is contrary to Obama's famous promise that "you can keep your plan".

- Millions of people lost their doctors, also contrary to Obama's famous promise.

- set a 50-employee floor, causing companies to cease hiring.

- required employees with 30+ hours to be covered, causing companies to reduce part-timers' hours. Even my wife, who teaches about 25 hours a week at a government-funded literacy agency, is not allowed to exceed 29 hours, here in the People's Republic of Cambridge that wholeheartedly supported Obama.

- Put an excise tax on "Cadillac" health plans starting in 2018. Intent was to tax the rich and give it to the poor. But union health plans are also being hit, as are retirees from universities and the like. Unions of course opposed this one but it went in anyway.

- Put an excise tax on medical instruments makers -- one of the few competitive manufacturing sectors left in the U.S. It's not even a tax on profits, it's a tax on revenue, thus will hurt medical instrument startups that are not profitable yet.

- Did nothing to reduce the complexity of health insurance regulation, which is so difficult to comply with that only large companies can afford the compliance staff. Thus, small to mid-size companies, which generate most of the new jobs in our economy, are disproportionately hit with enormous and complex regulations over something that has nothing to do with their core business.

- There are still millions of people who choose not to be covered by insurance.

- 26 states sued to have the law overturned. The Supreme Court upheld the individual mandate by redefining it as a "tax", which is exactly what Obama said it wasn't.

- Right after the law was enacted, the 2010 mid-term elections saw the biggest Republican sweep of the House in history, suggesting that maybe the voters were unhappy.

Those who claim that the Republicans blocked the law or inserted questionable bits into the law -- bull. The law was passed without a single Republican vote. Thus, it has no support from about half the country.

What would have worked better:

- Reduce mandated coverage rather than increase it (i.e. sex change operation, psychiatric, pediatric).

- Fund hundreds of free or low-fee walk-in clinics as substitute for emergency room primary care. This would have cost billions less than the ACA and would have largely solved the problems of indigent need for health care without forcing businesses to pay for it.

- raise "full time" definition to 40 hours or else eliminate it altogether and make it sliding scale

- stop requiring companies to provide health insurance in any form; it was originally a competitive benefit to offer potential hires and should remain so.

- get the government out of the health insurance regulatory business and allow more competition and diversity

These simple, inexpensive steps would make a policy much cheaper. Prior to ACA, a middle aged man in Arizona could pay $70 a month for a high deductible Blue Cross plan. When we were living there, I insured my entire family for $330 a month, including free annual checkups and women's wellness visits. It was a very good plan. Then we relocated to Massachusetts which requires insurers to cover everything under the sun, and the costs tripled or quadrupled, and there are only 2-3 insurers in the entire state; all the others left. Massachusetts is a microcosm of what's happened to the entire country.

Those knee-jerk liberals defending Obamacare really don't know what they're talking about, and are viewing the situation through rose tinted glasses. It's disastrous, and will be even more disastrous when all of it is in effect. Notice they let the personal mandate and certain other aspects kick in after the 2012 elections. Clever.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-22-2015, 03:28 PM
 
17,337 posts, read 14,859,212 times
Reputation: 32953
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
They never were. Being a sub teacher is not by any means a full time career type job.
It's a variable hour job. You could go weeks at the beginning of school with no calls.

Most do it for extra money.
Who was talking about subbing? I thought we were talking about retail stores. What do I know...thread title is Staples.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-22-2015, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,971 posts, read 8,900,001 times
Reputation: 18342
Well MisterBlisterPeanuts, the Republicans have had 161 years to step up to the plate on the issue of national health care, but never did. What are they waiting for?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-22-2015, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Washington State
15,402 posts, read 8,054,172 times
Reputation: 13201
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Well MisterBlisterPeanuts, the Republicans have had 161 years to step up to the plate on the issue of national health care, but never did. What are they waiting for?
Both parties have failed us and haven't had the courage to tackle those that are earning gross profits at the expense of everyone paying for it.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-22-2015, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,971 posts, read 8,900,001 times
Reputation: 18342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
Both parties have failed us and haven't had the courage to tackle those that are earning gross profits at the expense of everyone paying for it.
I don't disagree, but that doesn't answer the question I asked.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-22-2015, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
20,887 posts, read 22,478,078 times
Reputation: 32691
Why blame the ACA for this? Those working at supermarkets and in retail have been having this done to them for decades. I worked in the insurance health claims industry for over thirty years and I would see people being allowed hours just under the wire so their employers would not have to pay health care benefits.

Even if the employees were in a union they had to work a certain amount of hours to either begin to establish or maintain their benefits and often they were not given those hours. I know this for a fact because in order to pay their claims our records departments had to keep track of their hours. Often these employees would call and complain to me but there wasn't anything I could do about it. If they didn't have the hours their claims would be denied and their employers would see they didn't as long as they didn't want to be responsible for paying their medical bills.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-22-2015, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,949,006 times
Reputation: 27520
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
Who was talking about subbing? I thought we were talking about retail stores. What do I know...thread title is Staples.
I was in my post. My comment was that other jobs got cut besides Staples.
And I gave sub teaching as an example. And you replied to that asking how those people were supposed to get insurance.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-22-2015, 05:14 PM
 
3,437 posts, read 3,250,992 times
Reputation: 8072
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Well MisterBlisterPeanuts, the Republicans have had 161 years to step up to the plate on the issue of national health care, but never did. What are they waiting for?
Yes, they did, and no, they aren't.

But since you responded to my detailed and carefully thought-out comment with a one-line dismissal, why should I bother trying to debate with you?

You and the other supporters of ObamaCare haven't presented a single argument to convince me of the validity of the ACA's approach. Obama lied, and he and the implementers have deceived the public from day one.

For example they estimated the annual budget of the ACA based on the first 10 years, even though it wasn't even fully implemented during the first four years. That's like saying, this apartment will cost you an average of $500 a month starting now, even though you're not actually renting it for 6 more months. It's estimated ACA will cost the country a trillion dollars a year in about 5 years. Obama and his hack team claim, yes but it's actually saving money because it allows people to work self-employed yadda yadda. A very optimistic, rose-tinted prediction.

In reality, it has created more unemployment, a jobless recovery, everyone's afraid to increase headcount, and they conveniently failed to mention how p*ssed off the doctors are, how doubly complex it's made their jobs, how it's driven the sole practitioners out of business because a single doctor can't afford to pay 10 people to do all the G*dd*mn paperwork and implement the buggy new computerized medical record systems, and of course there's a national agency now to set the rate schedules that doctors and medical clinics can charge. Docs already hated Medicaid and were not taking on new Medicaid patients; just ask any older person who's searching for a doctor. Obamacare puts almost all of us on an expanded form of Medicaid and watch all the primary care docs fleeing a sinking ship because they can't earn enough to pay back their med school loans.

Mark my words: Obamacare is a disaster and a half. I think the only legislation worse than that would be the nuclear deal with Iran but don't get me started (actually that's another thread )
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-22-2015, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,971 posts, read 8,900,001 times
Reputation: 18342
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
Yes, they did, and no, they aren't.

But since you responded to my detailed and carefully thought-out comment with a one-line dismissal, why should I bother trying to debate with you?

You and the other supporters of ObamaCare haven't presented a single argument to convince me of the validity of the ACA's approach. Obama lied, and he and the implementers have deceived the public from day one.

For example they estimated the annual budget of the ACA based on the first 10 years, even though it wasn't even fully implemented during the first four years. That's like saying, this apartment will cost you an average of $500 a month starting now, even though you're not actually renting it for 6 more months. It's estimated ACA will cost the country a trillion dollars a year in about 5 years. Obama and his hack team claim, yes but it's actually saving money because it allows people to work self-employed yadda yadda. A very optimistic, rose-tinted prediction.

In reality, it has created more unemployment, a jobless recovery, everyone's afraid to increase headcount, and they conveniently failed to mention how p*ssed off the doctors are, how doubly complex it's made their jobs, how it's driven the sole practitioners out of business because a single doctor can't afford to pay 10 people to do all the G*dd*mn paperwork and implement the buggy new computerized medical record systems, and of course there's a national agency now to set the rate schedules that doctors and medical clinics can charge. Docs already hated Medicaid and were not taking on new Medicaid patients; just ask any older person who's searching for a doctor. Obamacare puts almost all of us on an expanded form of Medicaid and watch all the primary care docs fleeing a sinking ship because they can't earn enough to pay back their med school loans.

Mark my words: Obamacare is a disaster and a half. I think the only legislation worse than that would be the nuclear deal with Iran but don't get me started (actually that's another thread )
I have no intention of debating your statements which did nothing to answer the question I posed. Where have the Republicans been on the issue of national health care...ever? Nowhere. They didn't care. And they STILL have no plan.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-22-2015, 05:42 PM
 
17,337 posts, read 14,859,212 times
Reputation: 32953
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
I was in my post. My comment was that other jobs got cut besides Staples.
And I gave sub teaching as an example. And you replied to that asking how those people were supposed to get insurance.
I meant "those people" collectively, as in part-time workers. Many of whom are working part time because they can't get full time...and that was happening long before the ACA. See Minervah's post above yours.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top