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Old 07-22-2015, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
5,584 posts, read 5,513,487 times
Reputation: 4814

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Somehow I have the feeling that your health insurance would not be half as bad if it were called "Romney-care" or "McCain care"
Yes, just about every one of the more obnoxious conservative posters on the board has posted their own "Obama Care ripped me off" stories.

But what should we have expected from these guys. Since Obama can do no right in their eyes then why in the heck wouldn't he rip them off.
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Old 07-22-2015, 06:38 PM
 
Location: USA
7,456 posts, read 5,446,493 times
Reputation: 12249
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceOut001 View Post
Obama is not a dope. He's very intelligent but he needs to get another job. He also didn't create the ACA. It sounds more like a loop left in to actually allow big business to drop people. I know of a sufficient number of businesses who changed their practice knowing people could go to the ACA en route to the poor house.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obama-...132621073.html
Everything these days is about big business. The citizens are merely resources and causalities.

While at least the OP's post isn't yet another cross-eyed, frothing at the mouth "Obama is an evil communist tryin' to destroy 'merica!" post like we're so used to on this forum, I do wish people would step back and look at this objectively.

Big businesses - heck, most businesses - are always going to find yet another excuse to pay their workers poorly, cut hours and benefits, and funnel money into the hands of the greedy sociopaths at the top. This is nothing new. It didn't start with the ACA, and even if that law had never happened, there just would have been some other excuse.

The reality isn't that "The ACA makes it so we can't afford to hire people and pay them well." No, the reality is that companies can pay you whatever crap they want because - so long as they are all in on it - you'll have no choice but to accept the bad pay or none at all.

Sadly, much of the population of the US seems uninterested in addressing that issue, and a good chunk of the more regressive ones actually WANT big business to have even more power... because too much power is evil if its in the hands of government, but is somehow excellent, patriotic, and almost holy if in the hands of big business... nevermind who actually owns the government...
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Old 07-22-2015, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,888 posts, read 8,873,507 times
Reputation: 18291
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Yes, just about every one of the more obnoxious conservative posters on the board has posted their own "Obama Care ripped me off" stories.

But what should we have expected from these guys. Since Obama can do no right in their eyes then why in the heck wouldn't he rip them off.
Some I don't even believe.
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Old 07-22-2015, 10:11 PM
 
1,373 posts, read 1,261,772 times
Reputation: 4119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
Everything these days is about big business. The citizens are merely resources and causalities.

While at least the OP's post isn't yet another cross-eyed, frothing at the mouth "Obama is an evil communist tryin' to destroy 'merica!" post like we're so used to on this forum, I do wish people would step back and look at this objectively.

Big businesses - heck, most businesses - are always going to find yet another excuse to pay their workers poorly, cut hours and benefits, and funnel money into the hands of the greedy sociopaths at the top. This is nothing new. It didn't start with the ACA, and even if that law had never happened, there just would have been some other excuse.

The reality isn't that "The ACA makes it so we can't afford to hire people and pay them well." No, the reality is that companies can pay you whatever crap they want because - so long as they are all in on it - you'll have no choice but to accept the bad pay or none at all.

Sadly, much of the population of the US seems uninterested in addressing that issue, and a good chunk of the more regressive ones actually WANT big business to have even more power... because too much power is evil if its in the hands of government, but is somehow excellent, patriotic, and almost holy if in the hands of big business... nevermind who actually owns the government...
That is why I said people need to quit accepting part-time jobs, if every part-timer walked off the job tomorrow the companies might get the message. We can stick together, or sink together, its YOUR choice.
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Old 07-23-2015, 02:17 AM
 
Location: Blue Ridge
20,894 posts, read 22,678,977 times
Reputation: 8634
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
I agree with you about Universal care...unfortunately we live in a country where our 2 parties don't talk to each other and try to scare people with "death panel" propaganda fear mongering, so we get what we get which usually is less than ideal.
Then we need to dump both parties and create a coalition gov't.
We need term limits.
We need gov't officials stripped of all their perks which includes medical coverage for life. They need to not only see but feel the real world we feel on a daily basis.
We need to change in a big way.
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:19 AM
 
17,229 posts, read 14,821,251 times
Reputation: 32782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Then we need to dump both parties and create a coalition gov't.
We need term limits.
We need gov't officials stripped of all their perks which includes medical coverage for life. They need to not only see but feel the real world we feel on a daily basis.
We need to change in a big way.
I agree. But you can't just keep kicking the (health care) can down the road waiting for that to happen.
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Old 07-23-2015, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,888 posts, read 8,873,507 times
Reputation: 18291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Then we need to dump both parties and create a coalition gov't.
We need term limits.
We need gov't officials stripped of all their perks which includes medical coverage for life. They need to not only see but feel the real world we feel on a daily basis.
We need to change in a big way.
I don't agree with the term limit idea, because I think voters should be able to vote for anyone they want to represent them.

However, your point about stripping away perks resonates with me.

Give American senators and congressman the same work benefits that the "average" American has. Give them "average" health insurance, for example. How quickly things would change.

And heck...they only work part time. They don't work a 40 hour week for 48 weeks a year. They don't even deserve health insurance based on their own standard.
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Old 07-23-2015, 12:39 PM
 
820 posts, read 939,598 times
Reputation: 1166
Yup story of my life, new job only allowed to work 24 hrs total because they would have to pay me benefits. Old system I would get 40 hrs no benefits which is much better than 24.
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,242 posts, read 3,397,122 times
Reputation: 8783
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I don't agree that this is the primary reason medical costs have increased.

When I grew up in the 1950s, I remember that when someone had a heart attack, they most likely died or became disabled. Now there are all sorts of treatments -- angioplasty, stents, etc. that simply didn't exist before. I myself have a heart condition that 50 years ago would have resulted in having to simply stay home and rest all the time; with modern treatments I can live a fairly normal life.

I had an eye condition that even 30 years ago caused blindness. Now laser surgery totally prevents blindness.

And these medical advances have occurred in many, many fields of medicine. Sorry, but a $10 office call didn't necessarily get one very far 50 years ago in terms of curing various medical conditions.
Yes, I remember my dad telling me about my great-grandfather's death in 1958. He was having some trouble which today would instigate a battery of tests and put him on some expensive medication like what you mention.

Back then, the doctor came to the house, listened with a stethoscope, told him the ol' ticker isn't what it used to be and prescribed bed-rest and maybe some aspirin. Bill in the mail a few weeks later for $25.00.

A heart attack took him out about 6 months later.
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,242 posts, read 3,397,122 times
Reputation: 8783
Quote:
What would have worked better:

- Reduce mandated coverage rather than increase it (i.e. sex change operation, psychiatric, pediatric).

- Fund hundreds of free or low-fee walk-in clinics as substitute for emergency room primary care. This would have cost billions less than the ACA and would have largely solved the problems of indigent need for health care without forcing businesses to pay for it.

- raise "full time" definition to 40 hours or else eliminate it altogether and make it sliding scale

- stop requiring companies to provide health insurance in any form; it was originally a competitive benefit to offer potential hires and should remain so.

- get the government out of the health insurance regulatory business and allow more competition and diversity

These simple, inexpensive steps would make a policy much cheaper. Prior to ACA, a middle aged man in Arizona could pay $70 a month for a high deductible Blue Cross plan. When we were living there, I insured my entire family for $330 a month, including free annual checkups and women's wellness visits. It was a very good plan. Then we relocated to Massachusetts which requires insurers to cover everything under the sun, and the costs tripled or quadrupled, and there are only 2-3 insurers in the entire state; all the others left. Massachusetts is a microcosm of what's happened to the entire country.

Those knee-jerk liberals defending Obamacare really don't know what they're talking about, and are viewing the situation through rose tinted glasses. It's disastrous, and will be even more disastrous when all of it is in effect. Notice they let the personal mandate and certain other aspects kick in after the 2012 elections. Clever.
Ironically there WAS a plan like this - it sounds very much like Harry Truman's 1945 health care proposal - the showcase of which would have been government funded rural hospitals and urban/suburban neighborhood clinics.

It was dead in the water with the Republican congress at that time who said he was proposing that the Soviet Union take over America. Much of the problem with our heath care is that we never were able to implement a transition away from the WWII exigencies that forced employers into the health insurance business in the first place.

The ACA was the best anyone could have done. Now there are Trillions of dollars wrapped up in the health care middle-man industry. They will not give that up without a fight so any reform HAS to take into account the interests of health insurance companies, hospital systems, pharmaceutical companies, device companies, the health insurance billing industry and all the other interested parties who have a hand in those trillions.

As for the bolded, I had a plan not unlike the one you're describing with United Healthcare in the pre-ACA days. Good luck getting them to pay out on claims. It was good insurance.... until you actually got sick, then it was in the backroom for negotiation time to see what your monthly payments to pay your bill over 5 or 10 years were going to be. They did not "cover" much.
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