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Old 02-12-2015, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,868 posts, read 14,253,676 times
Reputation: 9011

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Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
Gay men want the special privilege to marry the same sex because that is who they are attracted to. SPECIAL TREATMENT.
And this is where your argument completely falls apart.

It would be special treatment if homosexuals could marry and heterosexuals could not. THAT is special treatment. All they're asking for is the same bundle of property and power of attorney rights (and the tax break) that heterosexual married couples enjoy.

There is nothing special about it. What's special is all the bigoted little snowflakes using everything from religion to natural order to try to deny people equal rights.
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Old 02-12-2015, 01:31 PM
 
920 posts, read 503,397 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
Then do not offer that service if it is offensive to your religion. You don't see Jewish delis selling pork because it is against their religion. Don't sell wedding cakes if it is going to violate your religion.

We are being treated differently if a man and woman can walk into the same bakery and buy the same cake that we were refused.

You are obtuse. And you also contradict your earlier claim that your marriage in no way is meant to control others' behavior. You just said that your marriage requires bakers not to bake cakes unless they cater to your sexual attraction!

You keep conflating the act of buying "a cake" with the connotation of the cake itself. I know for a fact that the florist that is being persecuted by the gay bullies in this state, sold flowers to them for more than 9 years, but did not want to create floral arrangements for their wedding based on her religious beliefs.

Why does the gay couple have to use the force of the state to strip this woman of her livelihood because they have to walk across the street to get wedding flowers? Why, because they have to bully society into embracing their desires no matter what rights or values they trample upon.

You think you have a right to be "in your face" about your sexual preferences, then complain that what you do in the privacy is not one else's business. You call everyone bigots and haters, when you think nothing of destroying businesses and people because of cakes and flowers.

When I look at all things considered, I don't see the business owners as the bigots and haters at all.
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Old 02-12-2015, 01:31 PM
 
32,503 posts, read 16,644,373 times
Reputation: 17476
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
Gay men and straight men are both free to marry the opposite sex. Gay men want the special privilege to marry the same sex because that is who they are attracted to. SPECIAL TREATMENT.
Oh dear, here we go again.

Christians in Saudi Arabia are perfectly free to worship Allah in the local mosque, like everybody else. But they want to build churches and worship Jesus. SPECIAL TREATMENT.
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Old 02-12-2015, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Central Florida
2,063 posts, read 1,868,865 times
Reputation: 1918
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
Yes, I have a daughter. She knows how to close stall doors too. It is a really easy thing to teach a child "close the door, and lock it"
The closed stall door does not offer total privacy in most bathrooms, because you can still see inside the stall in the space between the door and the side walls if someone were to look, and so because of how vulnerable a person is, due to what goes on in a bathroom and how they must undress inside the stall, I personally feel it is inappropriate for a strange man to be in there with ladies.
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Old 02-12-2015, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,332 posts, read 10,454,337 times
Reputation: 7964
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
Blacks were not seeking to be treated differently because of who they were sexually attracted to. A black man wanted to be treated like any other man.

I don't even know what you mean about Mexicans being exploited and harvesting...

Women were seeking equal say in the election of office holders who would have a direct effect on their lives. They were asking for the same right to cast a single vote, just like men. They were not seeking a special privilege to vote twice because they are women. Gay men and straight men are both free to marry the opposite sex. Gay men want the special privilege to marry the same sex because that is who they are attracted to. SPECIAL TREATMENT.

Women lost the ERA if you recall...why, cause it was stupid and sought special treatment based on genitalia.
And I am seeking to be treated like any other married person.
I am seeking to be treated equally under the laws of this country, just like any other American citizen.
I am seeking to be treated like any other customer that walks into a store.
I am seeking to be treated like any other employee.

Man can marry woman , but woman can not marry woman = discrimination based on the sex of the people getting married. The sexual orientation of the two people is not even considered nor asked for.
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Old 02-12-2015, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,188 posts, read 21,015,988 times
Reputation: 22134
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
I don't "strongly or unfairly dislike" gays. I don't refuse to accept gays. My son is gay. I do refuse to kowtow to the special treatment that gays expect from everyone else.

I think that describes a lot of gay people when it comes to respecting the religious belief of others, though.
I do hope that you don't make the same mistakes that others in your position have made. Some mistakes are not fixable. I do feel for your son and hope that he has people in his life that love him and want the best for him.
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Old 02-12-2015, 01:38 PM
 
920 posts, read 503,397 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
And this is where your argument completely falls apart.

It would be special treatment if homosexuals could marry and heterosexuals could not. THAT is special treatment. All they're asking for is the same bundle of property and power of attorney rights (and the tax break) that heterosexual married couples enjoy.

There is nothing special about it. What's special is all the bigoted little snowflakes using everything from religion to natural order to try to deny people equal rights.

No it wouldn't! You are seeing to change the definition and traditions of Western Civilization because you don't want the choice of partner offered under the current and only definition of marriage.

I made this analogy before, but I doubt you will get it, since analogies are hard for some people, but let's try.

If the government provided free ice cream (opposite sex) to every adult male and female (marriage), but a small group hated ice cream and demanded frozen yogurt (same sex), based solely on the reason that they were attracted to Fro-Yo and hated ice cream, and FORCED the government to change the laws to extend free Frozen yogurt, based solely on their taste in frozen treats, THAT IS SPECIAL TREATMENT.
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Old 02-12-2015, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,332 posts, read 10,454,337 times
Reputation: 7964
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
You are obtuse. And you also contradict your earlier claim that your marriage in no way is meant to control others' behavior. You just said that your marriage requires bakers not to bake cakes unless they cater to your sexual attraction!

You keep conflating the act of buying "a cake" with the connotation of the cake itself. I know for a fact that the florist that is being persecuted by the gay bullies in this state, sold flowers to them for more than 9 years, but did not want to create floral arrangements for their wedding based on her religious beliefs.

Why does the gay couple have to use the force of the state to strip this woman of her livelihood because they have to walk across the street to get wedding flowers? Why, because they have to bully society into embracing their desires no matter what rights or values they trample upon.

You think you have a right to be "in your face" about your sexual preferences, then complain that what you do in the privacy is not one else's business. You call everyone bigots and haters, when you think nothing of destroying businesses and people because of cakes and flowers.

When I look at all things considered, I don't see the business owners as the bigots and haters at all.
Marriage was not even legal in Oregon when the baker refused the lesbian couple. They were having a commitment ceremony not a wedding.

What part of religious beliefs do not exempt ANYONE from generally applicable laws do you not get?

Why did the businesses have to break the law and get themselves in trouble?

I have not called anyone a bigot or a hater, I am simply trying to explain how laws work in the real world and that no ones personal religious beliefs give them special rights to break the law.
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Old 02-12-2015, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Central Florida
2,063 posts, read 1,868,865 times
Reputation: 1918
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
The shop in Oregon opened AFTER the laws were already in place. But it wouldn't matter since business laws change all the time and that doesn't give older businesses the right to ignore the law.

How is being served a product that a business CHOSE to offer for sale "special treatment"?
How is having the SAME legal protections as any other couple "special rights"?


If you can not serve a product to all customers, then do not serve that product. No one is forcing you to offer that product for sale.

Now can we get back to the laws about EMPLOYMENT that this thread is about? The bakery thing has been done to death. They broke the law, they got in trouble, just like anyone else would.

In the Oregon case was the bakery being asked to just bake the cake for a gay couple or would it involve them having to actually bring the cake to the gay wedding? I have a legal question. Had the owner of the bakery told the gay couple that while he would agree to bake the cake for them if they really wanted him to he disagreed with their lifestyle and felt uncomfortable doing so would they still have been legally able to sue?
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Old 02-12-2015, 01:41 PM
 
920 posts, read 503,397 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
Exactly -- people see their secure little hate-filled bubble collapsing. And they hate that just as much as they hate gays/immigrants/science/atheism/etc.

Judge much! LOL I think you do a lot more projecting onto others that disagree with you, than you understand. For someone who keeps spouting the words hate and hate-filled...you may want to pick up a mirror every once in a while.
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