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Old 02-13-2015, 11:37 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,352 posts, read 16,763,689 times
Reputation: 11458

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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanguardisle View Post
The closed stall door does not offer total privacy in most bathrooms, because you can still see inside the stall in the space between the door and the side walls if someone were to look, and so because of how vulnerable a person is, due to what goes on in a bathroom and how they must undress inside the stall, I personally feel it is inappropriate for a strange man to be in there with ladies.
oh trust me, a mtw transgender is not going to be peeking in adjacent stalls to check out the competition....

Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
No it wouldn't! You are seeing to change the definition and traditions of Western Civilization because you don't want the choice of partner offered under the current and only definition of marriage.

I made this analogy before, but I doubt you will get it, since analogies are hard for some people, but let's try.

If the government provided free ice cream (opposite sex) to every adult male and female (marriage), but a small group hated ice cream and demanded frozen yogurt (same sex), based solely on the reason that they were attracted to Fro-Yo and hated ice cream, and FORCED the government to change the laws to extend free Frozen yogurt, based solely on their taste in frozen treats, THAT IS SPECIAL TREATMENT.

but what about me?? I am lactose intolerant (for real!) and can not partake of the ice cream.... so unless frozen yogurt is also offered, I am not able to enjoy the government provided treats.... through no fault of my own.... I was BORN that way.....
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,318 posts, read 10,390,695 times
Reputation: 7951
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
What I find icky...isn't that the latest term that you guys like to use to demean those of us who actually have a strong moral value system.

Trust me, my feelings about whether or not engaging in homosexual acts has nothing to do with "being icky." I understand why you have to deflect the real issue by making a ridiculous assumption. You really sound like a spoiled child, acting out because you can't have your way.

I would love for you to have lived during slavery and given the same speech: :In the US legal system the constitution trumps your beliefs about sin, and what you find icky, or what you personally approve of."

Just because something is a law, does not make it moral.
No the real issue is you don't want to share a freaking word. A WORD.
Who sounds like a spoiled child? The one saying that we should all have the same access to all protections under the law or the one railing on and on about not letting anyone else use "their" WORD?

I'm sorry but my morals include treating others with the same respect and giving them the same protections I have. So in my opinion MY morals are far better than those that would refuse the SAME protections they have to other.

During the time of slavery YOU would have been the one ranting on about "tradition" of owning other humans and how blacks can't have the same rights as good "moral" white Americans.
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,318 posts, read 10,390,695 times
Reputation: 7951
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
I don't "claim" anything. Society/laws/the government/religion states that marriage is between a man and a woman. I don't claim the right. You have the same rights as any man. You don't want to marry a woman, so you waive those rights. But, you want to create new rights based on your sexual preference.
And those laws are being shown to be in violation of our constitution.
Actually I do not have the same rights as a man since I CAN NOT marry a woman.
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,869 posts, read 14,194,135 times
Reputation: 9010
Wait until Israel adopts same-sex marriage. It's happening there, too. Then we'll get to see the unreasonably-conservative whackadoodles there have a vapor lock, too.

I'm guessing this illogical push-back is all about that silly verse in Hebrews about "the marriage bed." Otherwise they wouldn't be so hung up about the actual word.

(Well, there are considerably more hang-ups in play here. But that's the best explanation for being hung up on a word.)
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:55 AM
 
920 posts, read 501,082 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthStarDelight View Post
Wait a minute here - you cannot say that we're seeking "special rights" when we're seeking the right everyone else has - to marry the one we love - whether it be the same sex or the opposite. And you cannot dictate to others as to what's "moral" or not when it comes to sexual attraction. Gay people are just like everyone else, with the exception of being attracted to someone of the same sex.

Let me ask you this - what do YOU have to lose by allowing same sex marriage? How does this affect YOU?

That's right - it doesn't.

End of discussion. There's nothing more to be said on this matter.

Marriage is not about "love." The basis of marriage is creating a stable society in which a man and a woman enter into marriage with the expectation they will have children and raise them to be contributors to society. Rinse, repeat, rinse repeat...

Yes, many people marry for love. But the right to marry has NOTHING to do with love or sexual attraction. So your need to change the purpose of marriage so you can have societies "stamp of approval" is absolutely seeking special rights.

No one is dictating morality, except for those seeking special treatment.

Does SS marriage affect me? Why does it matter whether it affects me? I am not that selfish. I do see how it is affecting private business owners whose religious freedoms are being trampled. I see how it creates obligations on society based solely on the special rights of a select group of people who demand rights from others (free religious expression). So whether or not your SS marriage affects me personally is not the issue, it is whether your demands for special rights affects society as a whole.

I love "end of discussion!" LOL - it is right up their with "the science is settled." Since you proclaim "end of discussion!" doesn't mean anything more than you are frustrated because I am not bullied by your name calling and ridicule. I am strong in my personal value system and not ashamed of it. I know I am none of those names you have called me, because I disagree with you.

I have compassion for your desire to get governmental approval for your relationship, and I do not think you should be denied any protections under the law based on your sexual orientation, but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with your demand for special treatment under the law.
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:56 AM
 
13,942 posts, read 6,336,936 times
Reputation: 14533
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
The special treatment is seeking additional rights based solely on sexual attraction. Today all men and all women, regardless of their sexual attraction are free to marry anyone of the opposite sex. Gays seek to expand that right to allow them the special privilege of marrying the same sex. That is seeking to change the existing social norm to meet their personal proclivities.
Yet here you are, asking for special rights for marrying someone of the opposite sex. Why are you demanding special rights?

In other words, your post is just a bunch of baloney & you know it. You can't even argue logically.
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:58 AM
 
107 posts, read 101,733 times
Reputation: 230
lol @ the person claiming that any good moral system barres LGBT people from equal rights.

Where is the morality in that?

Based on what I know I'm not even convinced that the Bible/Quran/etc. are anti-homosexuality if you want to take that weird stance considering they both just talk about specific acts and not homosexuals. I'm not too familiar with the Bible but IIRC the Quran has like seven verses about sodomy (in the story of Sodom) and that's it. Based on what I know about the Bible it doesn't really condemn homosexuals either (correct me if I'm wrong). People are just cherry picking certain verses about certain acts that can be interpreted a certain way to justify their own bizarre beliefs.

Edit: Loriina, why have you decided that 'marriage' can only have that definition. Furthermore, what is your opinion of a heterosexual couple getting married if they don't or can't have kids? And there really is no basis for your 'special rights' ranting when as everyone has pointed out again and again, they would not be receiving more rights than heterosexual couples. The same does not equal more lol.
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Turlock, CA
323 posts, read 239,252 times
Reputation: 484
I said it early on, but it still continues to happen in discussions.

Is it that laws dictate morality for people? If you believe being homosexual is a sin or otherwise morally wrong, will you change your opinion based on if it's legal or not?

Likewise, is it the opinion of those on the affirmative side that the legality of same-sex marriage will determine if it's legal for people to have religious or moral beliefs that don't fall in line with that law?
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:00 PM
 
920 posts, read 501,082 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
Wait until Israel adopts same-sex marriage. It's happening there, too. Then we'll get to see the unreasonably-conservative whackadoodles there have a vapor lock, too.

I'm guessing this illogical push-back is all about that silly verse in Hebrews about "the marriage bed." Otherwise they wouldn't be so hung up about the actual word.

(Well, there are considerably more hang-ups in play here. But that's the best explanation for being hung up on a word.)
Does it really make your position more valid if you write people off as "unreasonably-conservative whackadoodles" with "vapor lock" having "considerably more hang-ups in play here"?

You really do not see the irony in your claims of persecution and ridicule by society, when you use such invectives about people who disagree with you?

Perhaps you might want to check your hypocrisy.
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Turlock, CA
323 posts, read 239,252 times
Reputation: 484
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlcockatoo View Post
Based on what I know I'm not even convinced that the Bible/Quran/etc. are anti-homosexuality if you want to take that weird stance considering they both just talk about specific acts and not homosexuals. I'm not too familiar with the Bible but IIRC the Quran has like seven verses about sodomy (in the story of Sodom) and that's it. Based on what I know about the Bible it doesn't really condemn homosexuals either (correct me if I'm wrong). People are just cherry picking certain verses about certain acts that can be interpreted a certain way to justify their own bizarre beliefs.
In the case of the Bible, it doesn't condemn homosexuals, but it does condemn homosexual behavior... if that makes any sense to you.

Basically it's the idea that you may be born with certain urges, but that acting on them is sinful.
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