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Old 02-13-2015, 12:49 PM
 
107 posts, read 95,557 times
Reputation: 230

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
Couldn't rep you again. I was just about to post a long article about history. But you beat me to it. Marks for remembering the American Indian "two spirits" philosophy. Homosexuals were held in particularly high regard in the New World for most of our existence.

I'll add buccaneer culture to your list -- there were all kinds of interesting views about marriage and sexuality among pirates.
I am not too familiar with buccaneer culture but I'll look into that.

If there is one trend I'm noticing with the historical comparisons, it's that suppressing homosexuals, same-sex marriages, etc. did way more harm than good (including being one 'justification' for the destruction and colonisation of an entire hemisphere). The argument of 'it was done in history so we should keep doing it' isn't really helping him/her. It's not just LGBT topics that this is true for; with basically anything, we can assume that our society operates under a more fair system than it did in the past.
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:50 PM
 
920 posts, read 477,077 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
B.S. There are tons of laws that reign in free exercise of religion. I can not use peyote legally even though it is a religious belief. I can not refuse service to women even though it is a religious belief. I can not sacrifice virgins even though it is a religious belief.

Generally applicable laws - look it up.

Scuse me? What religion hold a fundamental principle against providing a service to women or sacrificing virgins?
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:52 PM
 
920 posts, read 477,077 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlcockatoo View Post
I am not too familiar with buccaneer culture but I'll look into that.

If there is one trend I'm noticing with the historical comparisons, it's that suppressing homosexuals, same-sex marriages, etc. did way more harm than good.
Yeah, those Romans had the right idea.
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:52 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,286 posts, read 16,136,102 times
Reputation: 11272
will I ever get my frozen treats??
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Turlock, CA
322 posts, read 214,505 times
Reputation: 484
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
Scuse me? What religion hold a fundamental principle against providing a service to women or sacrificing virgins?
On the first count, Islam, Catholicism (birth control), etc.
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,869 posts, read 13,650,881 times
Reputation: 8987
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post

Leviticus 18:22
Who gives a rodent's rectum about what a bunch of big-beard misogynist nitwits wrote 3,000 years ago? I don't want to live in a society that bases its laws on a 3,000 year old book of mythology. Theocracy is the worst form of government. I'd prefer dictatorship to theocracy.

Because that's who really wants the "special rights." People with bankrupt ideas about reality. For example, I don't really care what the Amish do in their communities. Just so long as they don't insist that everyone live the exact same lifestyle that they do.
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:55 PM
 
107 posts, read 95,557 times
Reputation: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
Yes.

The Torah states:

Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination.

That is a pretty straightforward statement. And those who believe that the Torah, or the Old Testament (for Christians) was divinely inspired and reflects the actual words of God, do not believe in current reinterpretations by individuals with personal reasons to find a different meaning within them.
That is actually quite a vague statement.

'lie' can mean a variety of things, and 'with womankind' can mean a lot of different things too. I'm sure within the context it could be implied to forbid same-sex marriage, but it is not explicitly stated, and if there is one thing I know about most of these scriptures, it's that any one verse can usually be contradicted by another verse. That could simply be forbidding certain sexual practices, etc. And the way that that is structured only forbids men from having same-sex marriages, not women.

I've always been distrustful of translations from Hebrew/Arabic/Greek/etc to be honest because different Quranic translations slightly twist the words differently, and with some Biblical verses I've seen people compare the original to the 'modern English' translations in which 'sexual deviancy' is translated to 'homosexuality' which are not at all the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
Yeah, those Romans had the right idea.
Yes, same-sex marriage was one of positive aspects of an otherwise backwards system of governance.
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
19,428 posts, read 9,750,357 times
Reputation: 7535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrett View Post
Peyote use is legal for religious purposes, just as an FYI.
But is highly regulated, and some states still ban the use even in religious practices. Only one church is currently allowed to use peyote in ceremonies and other Native American religions can not.
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
19,428 posts, read 9,750,357 times
Reputation: 7535
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
Slavery was legal, too. Just because it is a law does not make it right or moral.
And we fixed that horrid mistake just like we are fixing this one. American laws are still moving towards a just society.
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Old 02-13-2015, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
19,428 posts, read 9,750,357 times
Reputation: 7535
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
Scuse me? What religion hold a fundamental principle against providing a service to women or sacrificing virgins?
Several religions through history have called for human sacrifice.

Some Muslims believe that mixing of the sexes among people not married is wrong.
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