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Old 02-14-2015, 01:44 PM
 
240 posts, read 196,995 times
Reputation: 1366

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Did ya'll get a look at that knife!!?? No cop should have to wrestle with that. I would have shot her dead too.
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Old 02-14-2015, 02:07 PM
 
Location: southern kansas
7,599 posts, read 5,108,665 times
Reputation: 16315
Looks like the police had little choice when the pepper spray & taser were ineffective. She was a lethal threat, and was met with lethal force. Sad situation, and I feel sorry for the victims family. No winners here at all.
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Old 02-14-2015, 02:13 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,427,088 times
Reputation: 47455
It took 2 pages of decent comments b4 I saw the expected
Why didn't the police blah blah blah
This is what u get on CDf
All police action and inaction is wrong
If a cop is standing there he is wrong
And why?
Bek 19% of Americans are felons
The natural enemy of police
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Old 02-14-2015, 02:34 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,615 posts, read 2,834,342 times
Reputation: 1910
Quote:
Originally Posted by StAugustine View Post
No LTL options?
Because this sounds like a situation DESIGNED for LTL use.
We call bean-bag rounds "less lethal", or LL, where I work. We only have a few LL's available on each shift. Small-to-medium sized police departments can't afford to buy LL's for every officer, so they are shared. My guess is, it wasn't available.

There's no way in Hades I'm going to risk using pepper spray or a baton on a knife-wielding person unless I am 100% sure I will win. If it's a 70 year old, frail lady with a knife, I'll probably take my chances. A middle-aged person with a zombie look that implies drug use or mental illness, isn't worth the risk of being cut or stabbed. If you get stabbed or cut in the wrong area, it's all over. We also have a policy stating we are a "+1 department". If you use fists, we're using pepper spray. If you use a knife, we're using a gun. Our policy allows one step above the level of force used by a criminal until it gets to deadly force. Don't like it? Don't break the law.
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Old 02-14-2015, 02:40 PM
 
2,004 posts, read 1,141,078 times
Reputation: 2904
Let anyone who thinks a baton is the proper response think about this: a person with a knife behaving strangely advances in your direction to within arms reach. You have two options since running away (probably your first thought) would leave someone else vulnerable. You have a baton or gun available to you. Which one do you choose? Remember, the police are required to protect the public so lets make it your child or loved one that can't get away and you are between the attacker with the knife and that lived one. My my, was that the sound of a machine gun being fired? If you have no loved ones in your life, understandable.
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Old 02-14-2015, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
2,540 posts, read 3,060,932 times
Reputation: 6721
Genyus:

Here in Canada, we also have the "continuum of escalation" which simply put means the officer has to be one step ahead of the armed attacker.

I wish that the Monday morning quarterbacks could be involved in the Police college exercise where the person with the knife is in a 20 foot square room and the officer has a baton. The knife has a red paint source in the blade, and the officer is wearing a white disposable coverall. In EVERY scenario the officer gets covered with red paint ( simulated blood cuts and stab wounds ) and the attacker is still on their feet and a continuing danger.

Just drawing the issue hand gun from the safety holster, results in the attacker being in your face, in less than TWO seconds, from 20 feet away. Now add alcohol and or drugs, and may be a touch of mental illness, and you, the cop, can be DEAD.

I was armed on a daily basis, while ON DUTY, for thirty years. I do know what I am taking about.

Jim b. In Toronto.
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Old 02-14-2015, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Central IL
13,379 posts, read 7,135,232 times
Reputation: 31113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theropod View Post
Courtney Topic, 22, was said to be acting like a “zombie” before police opened fire, and apparently ignored police calls to drop her knife. She moved towards them in a zombie-like fashion and the police kept their guns on her and kept moving back. She came towards them wielding and swinging a knife. They then shot her.

This happened outside of Hungry Jack's, a few days ago in Western Sydney (not sure if it's posted here). It has sparked an outrage locally. Apparently, she was mentally ill, having Asperger's Syndrome.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/2626...had-aspergers/
Hungry Jack’s shooting at West Hoxton, Sydney
No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au
If a gun is your only "tool", what can you do except shoot? What I mean is, cops need to have batons, and tasers, and whatever else so that they have many options of various lethality. I would doubt this woman really merited to be shot - especially if she was mentally ill and not a known criminal - is she not innocent?

The thing is, in a hostage situation, cops are willing to wait for DAYS and negotiate and do practically anything to avoid hostages getting hurt. But in cases like this, there is the apparent belief that it is an URGENT situation and all that can be done is shoot them and get it over with. Why not surround the person and use mace on them? why not drop a net over them? Why not use a tranquilizer gun? I mean seriously, why are these "crazy" but non-lethal methods never discussed or developed or made available?!

Give cops some other option besides killing and then make them PROVE why they had to use lethal force if someone is killed. If someone is permanently injured, make them prove why the couldn't have just restrained them, etc.
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Old 02-14-2015, 06:12 PM
 
Location: USA
7,778 posts, read 9,614,579 times
Reputation: 11672
Being mentally ill doesn't give a person a free pass to have more time. No one wants a hand cut open trying to remove the knife.
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Old 02-14-2015, 07:30 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,615 posts, read 2,834,342 times
Reputation: 1910
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian citizen View Post

I was armed on a daily basis, while ON DUTY, for thirty years. I do know what I am taking about.

Jim b. In Toronto.
I respect anyone who can do the job for 30 years with the stress, danger, and public perception that comes along with it.

I am most likely leaving at 10 years when I'm vested to start a second retirement elsewhere.
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Old 02-14-2015, 07:33 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,615 posts, read 2,834,342 times
Reputation: 1910
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
If a gun is your only "tool", what can you do except shoot? What I mean is, cops need to have batons, and tasers, and whatever else so that they have many options of various lethality. I would doubt this woman really merited to be shot - especially if she was mentally ill and not a known criminal - is she not innocent?

The thing is, in a hostage situation, cops are willing to wait for DAYS and negotiate and do practically anything to avoid hostages getting hurt. But in cases like this, there is the apparent belief that it is an URGENT situation and all that can be done is shoot them and get it over with. Why not surround the person and use mace on them? why not drop a net over them? Why not use a tranquilizer gun? I mean seriously, why are these "crazy" but non-lethal methods never discussed or developed or made available?!

Give cops some other option besides killing and then make them PROVE why they had to use lethal force if someone is killed. If someone is permanently injured, make them prove why the couldn't have just restrained them, etc.
See my previous comment about police budgets. We have a few "less lethal" bean bag guns per shift. We don't have the money to buy a bunch of them for every officer to carry one at all times. We constantly spend money on new-hires, training, camera systems, vehicles, other equipment, etc. If law enforcement had unlimited budgets, then you'd probably see drones that could come down and slap a knife out of someone's hand. Until then, we have to use what we get. You just don't understand until you do the job.
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