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Old 02-16-2015, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Princeton
1,078 posts, read 1,051,726 times
Reputation: 2132

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These cowards try to instill fear, I can't wait for the day when they drop their weapons and turn running begging for their lives.


And that my friends will be justice served....
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Old 02-16-2015, 01:32 PM
 
11,564 posts, read 17,496,164 times
Reputation: 17201
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingIL View Post
A lot of them are there because way back when, they were forced out of Palestine by the Israeli government:

Palestinian Christians Plea to Israel to Let Them Return Home
Your article has absolutely nothing to do with the people that were massacred and has nothing to do with this thread. Have you ever been to Egypt? Coptic Christians are not Palestinian Christians. They are native to Egypt and are one of the oldest Christian communities in the middle east.
Why are you trying to misdirect this thread?
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Old 02-16-2015, 01:55 PM
 
5,106 posts, read 6,062,113 times
Reputation: 9677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Your article has absolutely nothing to do with the people that were massacred and has nothing to do with this thread. Have you ever been to Egypt? Coptic Christians are not Palestinian Christians. They are native to Egypt and are one of the oldest Christian communities in the middle east.
Why are you trying to misdirect this thread?
Agree well said.
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Old 02-16-2015, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
12,620 posts, read 10,732,308 times
Reputation: 14851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theropod View Post
Some let out a pleading cry, "please don't"...
I would have said, "Allah, Allah, you are so GREAT!"
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Old 02-16-2015, 03:04 PM
 
9,701 posts, read 6,669,821 times
Reputation: 9775
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingIL View Post
Because the Israeli government is the one that perpetrates the most crimes against Arabs and gets away with all of it, aside, of course, from the United States.
Aha, now I get it, you're just another anti-Semite and apologist for Muslim terrorism.

The fact that you blame "the Jews" for the problems in the Middle East, when 99.99% of Muslims are being killed by other Muslims, when Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, and when Muslims in Israel are the most prosperous and free in the Middle East, basically shows you are ignorant and full of hate.

Israel is basically a sole beacon of light in the most screwed up part of the world. They are pretty much the best thing going on anywhere in the Middle East, by a longshot.

The fact that people are so openly anti-Semitic these days is really freaking scary. It's like it's "cool" to blame "the Jews" for everything now. Jews are pretty much at risk anywhere in Europe these days, and basically only have a safe place in Israel, the U.S., Canada and Australia. They were already slaughtered or removed in Europe 60 years ago, then the huge Jewish population in the Middle East (everywhere from Morocco to Iran) was slaughtered and removed by Muslims in subsequent decades. Very, very sad.
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Old 02-16-2015, 03:11 PM
 
9,701 posts, read 6,669,821 times
Reputation: 9775
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
Did you happen to read where the Jews were driven from their land, the land they now partially occupy? Granted it was many,many years ago so I guess it doesn't matter...
The Jews were not only driven from the Holy Land, they were driven from the entire Middle East by radical Islam.

Do you want to know why there are so many Jews in NYC, LA and Paris? Basically half of them are from Muslim states where they were being murdered, and the remainder fled. Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Yemen, etc. all had huge Jewish populations until Muslim radicals took over.

Ever heard about the Persians in LA? They are actually Jews, who were being massacred after the Islamic revolution. Or maybe the SY Jews of Brooklyn? They are Syrian Jews who fled after Hafez al-Assad took power and started killing Christians and Jews. There are entire Brooklyn neighborhoods where everyone is Syrian.

And the exact same thing happened to the Christians of the Middle East. Lebanon used to be majority Christian. Now they are dying out. Egypt used to be about one-third Christian, now less than 5%. Even Bethlehem in Palestine has basically no Christians. Or ever heard of the Zoroastrian religion in Iran? Basically gone. The Islamic states pretty much kill or drive out everyone who practice a different faith. This isn't PC, but it's the absolute truth.
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Old 02-16-2015, 03:30 PM
 
11,564 posts, read 17,496,164 times
Reputation: 17201
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
Aha, now I get it, you're just another anti-Semite and apologist for Muslim terrorism.

The fact that you blame "the Jews" for the problems in the Middle East, when 99.99% of Muslims are being killed by other Muslims, when Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, and when Muslims in Israel are the most prosperous and free in the Middle East, basically shows you are ignorant and full of hate.
Not to mention....his or her outburst has nothing to do with the topic. Egyptian Coptic Christians get massacred by Muslim extreemest and she blames the US and talks about Israel and mentions some nonsense about Palestine Christians.
Things like this happen before Columbus even landed on the New World!
She mine as well talk about the latest soccer hulligan riots in this thread, it's just as relevant.
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Old 02-16-2015, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Seminole County, FL
7,741 posts, read 5,326,875 times
Reputation: 9363
Sounded an awful lot like a Quebec accent, to me...
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Old 02-16-2015, 04:02 PM
 
7,022 posts, read 5,772,668 times
Reputation: 6963
The New York Times buried the story. No, there's no liberal bias in the media. There's also no Christian persecution in the Middle East.

NYT Buries Story on Page A6
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Old 02-16-2015, 05:45 PM
 
610 posts, read 556,515 times
Reputation: 1299
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
Aha, now I get it, you're just another anti-Semite and apologist for Muslim terrorism.
I'm not anti-Semitic. You're using bin-Laden logic. See... He believed that the Israeli government represents all Jewish people everywhere, and so was justified in ordering their attacks. I don't even blame Jews LIVING IN ISRAEL for what their government does. They're a government, which means they have an enormous propaganda machine that works to legitimize them among their own constituents day in and day out. You're falling into that same propaganda trap. Or maybe you just really like bin Laden. Or! maybe you're a liberal. You know, like when you point out an obvious truism about black people in America like, say, they commit crimes at a higher rate than white people, and you're a racist? Maybe you really are a lefty-liberal bin-Laden lover, though. I don't know you.

Also, seeking motives for violent behavior, and trying to excuse it, are two different things. If, say, a woman murdered her husband in cold blood in his sleep, and a detective found out that he had been abusive, that doesn't excuse the woman for being a murderer, nor does it mean the detective was apologizing for her, but it certainly provides context for her behavior. This is the identical process in which I am engaging. You, meanwhile, are falling right in line like a good little American sheep who hasn't learned to think for himself and conflating my contempt for Israeli politicians and my assertion of motive with being anti-Semitic and a terrorist apologist. How old are you, man? Because, if you're a grown adult, I can't tell by way of your capacity to reason effectively. You ALWAYS have to try and view a conflict by envisioning the enemies of each side as they envision them. It doesn't make those people right, but it certainly pushes you closer to conflict resolution. I remember learning that in like, second grade. Maybe you didn't. Let's continue, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
The fact that you blame "the Jews" for the problems in the Middle East, when 99.99% of Muslims are being killed by other Muslims, when Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, and when Muslims in Israel are the most prosperous and free in the Middle East, basically shows you are ignorant and full of hate.
"The Jews" part has been dealt with above. I never once said "the Jews," but rather, "the Israeli Government," which is different. I opposed the war in Iraq, and the one in Afghanistan, and the one in Libya, and the one in Syria they tried to pull off, and the drone wars in Somalia, Waziristan, and Yemen. As one of "the Americans," I had NOTHING to do with those terrible murder campaigns. The Israeli government, as much as Netanyahu AND bin Laden would love you to believe it, does not represent "the Jews" as a whole.

Muslims are, in fact, being killed by other Muslims. I did not deny this either. What I'm saying is that the roots of these wingnuts like ISIS and Arar al-Sham and Jabhat al-Nusra and the Islamic Front and the Northern Storm Brigade and Boko Haram and AQAP and Al-Qaida in the Sahel lie in foreign occupation. Do you think it's just like, this miraculous coincidence that all of these groups pop up in places that are either:

a.) occupied by American troops, or
b.) ruled by dictators propped up by the American Government, or
c.) living under an American drone war, or
d.) the victims of a state that grovels over American interests?

And is it also a coincidence that somehow American and Israeli interests are supposed to be the exact same, according to the American and Israeli political classes? Perhaps, too, a coincidence that for every atrocity the Israeli government commits, and for every attempt to hold them to account on the international stage, they are protected by the United States?

Or, that al-Qaida PRIOR to the advent of the terror war was a few hundred wackos? But that radical Islamists post-Terror War are now everywhere? That's pretty simple logic, but hell, I don't know how smart lefty-liberal bin-Laden lovers really are.

As for it being a "democracy," ask the West Bank and Gazan Palestinians which Knesset members they last voted for. Oh... hah. Nevermind.

And they're the "most free?" Which is why 2500 of them were killed in a "defensive" bombing campaign last year, right? Because they're just SO free? Or why 1100 of them had their homes demolished to to "improper" building permits last year? Or why the Shin Bet can raid any Gazan or West Bank home they want without a warrant? Or why AI has proven that the IDF tortures Palestinian children in "military" prisons? Because they're just SO FREE, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
Israel is basically a sole beacon of light in the most screwed up part of the world. They are pretty much the best thing going on anywhere in the Middle East, by a longshot.
In terms of domestic liberties, I don't disagree with you even one bit. Based on freedoms recognized by a state for its citizens, I would probably rather live in Israel than in ANY other state in the Middle East. That's also true of America and many Western European countries. It does not make their military or foreign policies any less horrible whatsoever, and actually has nothing to do with this argument. It also does not disprove my thesis that actions, specifically foreign actions, have consequences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
The fact that people are so openly anti-Semitic these days is really freaking scary. It's like it's "cool" to blame "the Jews" for everything now. Jews are pretty much at risk anywhere in Europe these days, and basically only have a safe place in Israel, the U.S., Canada and Australia. They were already slaughtered or removed in Europe 60 years ago, then the huge Jewish population in the Middle East (everywhere from Morocco to Iran) was slaughtered and removed by Muslims in subsequent decades. Very, very sad.
And 700,000 Palestinians, or 400,000 if you want to use the Israeli government's own estimate, were removed from Palestine 60 years ago. Does that justify all the horrible **** that the PLO and now PA and Hamas have done while claiming to "represent" the Palestinian people? No. Not at all. It has nothing to do with governments being justified in being terrible.

And the whole "Jews are at risk anywhere in Europe" is pretty over the top. I don't think even Fox News would really go that far. Even if 20 have been killed since ISIS broke off from Nusra, that's still a 1 in 500,000 chance. Which is about 10,000 times less likely than being in a car accident, and I'm not like, on-edge concerned I'm going to die every time I'm behind the wheel.

Now, if you want some brief, real history, which isn't full of MSNBC/CBS/Fox/Breitbart/Newsmax/CNN bull****, then allow me:

Before Theodore Herzl, there was a guy named Zvi Hirsch Kalischer. In 1861, he developed the idea of Jews returning to the Holy Land, because he believed the Messiah wasn't necessary to lead them back. His followers started founding these groups all over Eastern Europe called the "Lovers of Zion." These were religious groups that advocated a return to Palestine by the Jewish people. This actually pissed off Palestinian Jews the most who, despite largely being beggars and second-class citizens, had existed basically in peace with their Arab neighbors since the 1200s.

Then, Theodore Herzl came around and, despite being an Atheist, influenced a whole bunch of rich Marxist Jews and Orthodox Rabbis into believing that salvation lie in colonizing Israel. Then he started the World Zionist Organization, which absorbed most of the Lovers of Zion groups that had been disciples of Kalischer's. This was received so poorly by the Jews in Palestine that there were even Palestinian Jewish militias that would murder Jewish settlers to try and stop the freight train of conflict they knew was headed their way. But that didn't stop members of the WZO, or of their cronies in the British Empire, who sent a whole lot of religiously Orthodox and also socialist Jews there over a relatiely short period.

Then, the Orthodoxy co-opted much of the politics of the territory, and it became largely theocratic. The first Chief Rabbi appointed in Mandatory Palestine even claimed that the souls of non-Jews were less than that of cattle. Sounds a lot like something Hitler would say, right? Then, religiously-motivated groups that were pissed off following the Nazi Death Camps took their anger out on Palestinians and forced many of them out in the Nakba. Even the most devout Israeli-Zionist-Apologists don't deny that this happened. From there, it spiraled more and more towards ideological Jewish theocracy, as this Haaretz article explains:

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And so, as the religious right in Israel continues its theocratic wacko rise to power, you get people in the Knesset calling for genocide:

The member of Knesset who called for genocide -- especially against the mothers

Or, you get guys like Yitzhak Shapira calling for the killing of Palestinian children:

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And so the tensions mount as Israel gets away with more and more atrocities under the pretext of being Jewish cause, since Jews were murdered a lot, they can do whatever they want to anyone and it's just fine (says the Knesset).

It's not this like, wonderful bastion of peace and democracy that you seem to think it is.
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