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Old 03-06-2015, 03:00 PM
 
Location: One of the 13 original colonies.
10,136 posts, read 6,466,844 times
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Fighting against someone that is attacking you to do bodily harm, and attacking someone because of a stupid prank are two different things. Most girls will come out on the losing end if they start a fight with a boy who will not hold back because you are a girl. Males are generally bigger and stronger, and a school boy can do some harm. I have seen it many times. To tell a girl to put herself in a situation where she may be hurt is wrong. If the teacher does nothing, go to a higher authority. You were in luck that the police saved you and your sister also, you said the man did not give up even when there were two of you.
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Old 03-06-2015, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Baja Virginia
2,798 posts, read 2,385,306 times
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This wasn't a "stupid prank", it was sexual harassment. He was removing her underwear.
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Old 03-06-2015, 03:37 PM
 
750 posts, read 641,920 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
To this day, decades later I wonder, again two of us, one of him. My sister and I fought like tigers.We are not tiny girls either. Still he wouldn't give up. What kind of mind thinks that way? One that is conditioned to believe women don't/can't/shouldn't fight back? Men have supreme power over women? Rape is a power struggle. Where is this learned?
That is the issue I have with people these days. These behaviors are not learned 99% of the time. The people that commit the acts are mentally deranged. You can't teach anything out of them, just as you can't teach a murderer to stop killing people. There isn't a movement or education program that will stop rapists. You stop rapists by severely physically disabling them. Otherwise they will continue to do it. It is a cruel world and plenty of crazies are among us. We just have to be prepared to stop them, instead of hoping we can somehow fix their deranged behavior. It appears we are already succeeding, because homicide and rape has fallen DRAMATICALLY over the last few decades, and continues to decline. Glad you two were able to fight him off. It is only a shame you didn't get to permanently end him!
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Old 03-06-2015, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Baja Virginia
2,798 posts, read 2,385,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JobSeeker101 View Post
That is the issue I have with people these days. These behaviors are not learned 99% of the time. The people that commit the acts are mentally deranged. You can't teach anything out of them, just as you can't teach a murderer to stop killing people.
This is a total copout. Racism, sexism, rape culture are totally learned behaviors. If the older generation treats women like sex toys, the younger generation will learn to do so, too.
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Old 03-06-2015, 03:45 PM
 
750 posts, read 641,920 times
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Originally Posted by scratchie View Post
This is a total copout. Racism, sexism, rape culture are totally learned behaviors. If the older generation treats women like sex toys, the younger generation will learn to do so, too.
The older generation didn't believe in raping people. Today, if a guy treats you like a sex toy then you don't associate with him. Many women (probably not you) today are embracing this hyper sexual culture and presenting themselves as sex objects. As a man, it saddens me that they do this. Class, manners, and truly getting to know someone has gone completely out of the window for my generation. I've met many women that moved on if I didn't have sex with them within the first week of merely texting them. I kind of prefer to actually see if they are capable of conversation before jumping in bed, not to mention avoiding STDs and unwanted pregnancies.

Btw, I believe racism would have been largely dead by now if the media didn't keep pushing it on us. Every single week there is a new story they want to push on us with all kinds of blatant racism promoting headlines. They want us to stay racist, as it gives them a story and makes lots of money.
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Old 03-06-2015, 05:02 PM
 
Location: USA
1,024 posts, read 789,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JobSeeker101 View Post
The older generation didn't believe in raping people.
They did, they just didn't call it rape. They blamed the victim a lot more, and told her she "had it coming" because of what she wore, if she was flirtatious, or whatever.

I am reminded of a story from Helen Mirren:

Quote:
"Dame Helen's contention was that a woman who voluntarily ended up in a man's bedroom and engaged in sexual activity but then said no to intercourse could not seriously expect to take that man to court on a charge of rape if he ignored her last-minute insistence that she did not want full sex.

That had happened to her "a couple of times" 40 years ago when she was a budding actress. She had not reported the incidents to police because "you couldn't do that in those days". And perhaps, she suggested, that was not such a bad thing."

...

"Women's groups and anti-rape campaigners were infuriated by the 63-year-old's views, which, they insist, hark back to a mindset that transferred the blame for rape from the rapist to the victim, by suggesting that what a woman wears, or how she behaves, can in someway mitigate the culpability of the man who violates her. It is back to the subliminal "she was asking for it" defence."
Back in those days, a guy could force a woman even if she said "no," because she was in his apartment and hadn't said "no" to kissing or other sexual/romantic behavior. So back then, it wasn't rape. Nowadays, it would be.
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Old 03-06-2015, 05:57 PM
 
750 posts, read 641,920 times
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Originally Posted by elvira310 View Post
Back in those days, a guy could force a woman even if she said "no," because she was in his apartment and hadn't said "no" to kissing or other sexual/romantic behavior. So back then, it wasn't rape. Nowadays, it would be.
Should the guy stop? Yes. Should the woman put herself in a situation where any rational person clearly thinks sex is going to happen? No. She should have stated her boundaries before choosing to get hot and heavy. I personally wouldn't continue after being told no, but she could have been smarter about the situation she chose to be in that led up to that moment.

In a perfect world, no one would be victimized. In the real world, people can greatly lessen their chance of being victimized by analyzing the situations they are putting themselves in and examine the potential of something going wrong. I don't get blackout drunk in a bar because I know people could be there with cruel intentions. I wouldn't deserve to be robbed for getting blackout drunk, but I realize bad things happen and I should be proactive rather than reactive.

To be clear, I am positively 100% against rape. I am also 100% for accountability of ones actions that lead up to bad events, and how they could have been completely avoided had the person thought things through and been more responsible. Sometimes we screw up though, I know I'm not perfect and have allowed myself to be put in situations that I regret.
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Old 03-06-2015, 06:14 PM
 
Location: USA
1,024 posts, read 789,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JobSeeker101 View Post
Should the guy stop? Yes. Should the woman put herself in a situation where any rational person clearly thinks sex is going to happen? No. She should have stated her boundaries before choosing to get hot and heavy. I personally wouldn't continue after being told no, but she could have been smarter about the situation she chose to be in that led up to that moment.
It would be the considerate thing for her to do, to say that she didn't want sex so the guy doesn't have false expectations, but sometimes people don't know beforehand how things are going to go. Maybe she thought she might, but at the last minute he does or says something repulsive and she's no longer interested.

Regardless, being 'inconsiderate' pales in comparison to someone being forced to have sex against their will, which Helen Mirren admits happened to her several times. But back in the old days, no woman could report that as rape. After all, she was 'asking' for it!

My point was, back in the old days, people (in this case, men) got away with a lot more, because the police wouldn't call it out of line, society wouldn't call it out of line, no one would stand up for a woman who was having sex forced upon her against her will, because, because . . . well, she should have known better! So the guy could force sex upon a woman, and not be called a "rapist."

Does it work that way now? Of course not.

Neither does bra twanging, unhooking a fellow student's bra, because boys will be boys. Maybe back then, it would be okay for a man to force a woman to have sex against her will, because she came to his apartment. And maybe back then, a boy could twang a girl's bra and unhook it even, and she'd better not complain. But those days are over and thank goodness for that!
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Old 03-06-2015, 07:16 PM
 
750 posts, read 641,920 times
Reputation: 1106
Quote:
Originally Posted by elvira310 View Post
Neither does bra twanging, unhooking a fellow student's bra, because boys will be boys. Maybe back then, it would be okay for a man to force a woman to have sex against her will, because she came to his apartment. And maybe back then, a boy could twang a girl's bra and unhook it even, and she'd better not complain. But those days are over and thank goodness for that!
I still don't see this situation as something to get so distraught over. I'm not old, and people still did stuff like this when I was in high school. Sure it was juvenile, but teenagers aren't known for their maturity. The girls sometimes got annoyed, and sometimes liked the attention depending on the guy that was doing it. They never had emotional distress over it though or wanted to fight people. Then again in reality the teacher would always get onto the person causing a disturbance. We have to remember this story is false, and meant to have people make a fuss over it.
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Old 03-06-2015, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Baja Virginia
2,798 posts, read 2,385,306 times
Reputation: 3970
Quote:
Originally Posted by JobSeeker101 View Post
Should the woman put herself in a situation where any rational person clearly thinks sex is going to happen?
Newsflash: The only time a "rational person clearly thinks sex is going to happen" is when their partner has consented to having sex. Doing otherwise makes you a rapist.
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