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Old 02-28-2015, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
677 posts, read 505,271 times
Reputation: 966

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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianosaur View Post
Racism obviously can be taught but it isn't the exclusive reason for racism.

It also gets learned when people make observations and form their own opinion about what they see.

If a black teen boy watches on TV a group of white soccer fans stopping a black man from getting on a train and hurling racial slurs , he sees this bigotry and can form an opinion about a group of disgusting white racist males. It can also skew into his opinion about white folks in general.

It can also work the other way and white teens will form opinions when they view actions they view negative performed by other races.
Same as when white people see other whites continually targeted by blacks in the "knockout game." Or the disproportionate number of black on white rapes.
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Old 02-28-2015, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
10,102 posts, read 9,333,194 times
Reputation: 13180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clampdown69 View Post
See that's you and its a free country of course so you're entitled to feel however you want, but I like my traits and I want them to live on. My fiancé and I are both of similar heritage and both have dark hair and very pale skin and she has light green eyes and I have light blue eyes and that look is common in both of our families so that will get passed on to our children likely. It's not even just about physical traits its about heritage. Me and her we're both born to immigrants from Europe that all came from villages that are in the same region and can be traced back for centuries, my kids will be able to trace their heritage back to those villages and I am very proud of my heritage, similarly I will encourage my children (especially daughters but sons as well) to marry and reproduce with people of similar heritage (we are Sicilian so ideally another Sicilian, or southern Italian or at the very least Italian or southern catholic Europe). And yes I know there is a possibility that my child can be gay or infertile or not want to have kids (the first two I would accept but the final one would be problematic for me) which is why we are trying for at least four (2 boys 2 girls maybe more) so that we have our bases covered when it comes to grand children. Even if my son or daughter was gay which I would probably have no issue with I would encourage them to have a biological child especially if it was my son so my last name keeps getting carried on as well as my DNA. I'm 30 and you might think I'm old fashioned and I might agree with you lol and I don't ask anyone to agree with the choices me and my future wife have made in regards to that but I don't like that people will call me a racist because I want my specific heritage and genes to live on. I would. I just as bothered if my daughter had a kid with an Irish guy or a Lutheran of Norwegian descent as I would if she would get with a black or Chinese dude.

There are millions of people out there with Sicilian, southern Italian, Italian or even southern european heritage so it's not as if there is slim pickings and although I do know that someone cannot control who they fall in love with they can control who they marry and reproduce with and they can also lessen those chances of failing for an inappropriate partner by not even going on that first date or giving out their phone number. We are taking that into consideration for a relocation that wherever we move has a nice sized Italian American community both for fun stuff like food and future family considerations.

Heritage is very important to me and it would break my heart, my fiances heart, all 4 of our parents heart if that line was broken and my ancestors buried in Italy would roll over in their graves..I'm a lowly contractor from along now but I'm 13 generations directly descended from a ducal royal family in Sicily, Malta and Savoy.
Besides this aspect I am very far from archaic snd traditional (read some of my posts) but this is one thing for me.


You don't gotta feel my pain and you're wekcome to think I'm an idiot, old fashioned and whatever else but valuing and preserving my heritage doesn't make me a racist, there is very big difference between hating someone for their skin color and ethnicity and not wanting to have babies with them or have them become part of my family tree and imprinted in the genetic matierial of my ancestors for the rest of time. I don't hate people because of their skin color, my feelings about someone (hate or like, platonic feelings) are completely dependent on how they act. I won't pull the whole "I have black friends bit" cause I do not have any close black friends (I am very close with these two brothers of Dominican descent but I see them as my friends not my token fiends of color), I will admit that I did feel uncomfortable and out of place when I went with them to a concert for a rapper and the crowd was entirely black and hispanic so I stuck out like a sore thumb because I'm pale (keep myself that way intentionally cause wrinkles from tans suck...spf100 all day ;P) but I think that's more a function of me not liking sticking out and a feeling of having no cultural common ground with most people in my surroundings.

I'm glad your happy and confident with who you are, we all like different things, care about different things and do different things and as long as we don't hurt others we are totally entitled too

I think because the New World Countries are so mixed, people become more conscious of their heritage here. I have cousins in southern Brazil (Florianopolis) who are conscious about finding other Italian women so they both married argentine women (Italian is the largest ancestry group in that country), whereas a relative I have from Sicily married a French woman and they live in Munich.
Hey, now, I don't think you are racist because you have a cultural preference. I'm a New Yorker, and I know plenty of ethnic Italians. I've dated Italians but they probably would never marry me in favor of another Italian. I have no issue with that one bit. I'm just saying that my family has such a varied cultural history, I personally couldn't relate. My mother was born in the United States and my father wanted to act and be American so much at the time that he didn't bother to teach me the language or anything else related to his culture. He ended up marrying another Brasilian the second time around, so culture does play a big role. My culture though, is an assimilated American culture, so yeah...I don't have the same feelings/issues.
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Old 02-28-2015, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
10,102 posts, read 9,333,194 times
Reputation: 13180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi60 View Post
Thank you Clampdown69! I'm sure you will have a beautiful family with a bright future.

My family also came from Europe, long after the alleged b.s. happened so I accept no responsibilty.
I am so very proud that when my family did arrive in the U.S., they worked hard, earned respect, and were admitted to and graduated from college without having the American taxpayer pay for their hardships, or give them handouts. Personal pride, hard work, and integrity are important to us today and in the future. I also like our traits, culture, celebrate our culture. Many others have also come to the U.S. and thrived with hard work and ethical behavior.

We still have the right of free association in the U.S.!
All of those things that you are thumping your chest about are no big deal. My family (on both sides, and not coming from Europe) worked hard, never took government handouts, and did well. My father before he retired was making a six figure income and owns property in Latin America. Not bad for someone who is clearly non-European, knew barely a lick of English, and had to start his life in rough New York City. He attended Northeastern on a scholarship due to his academic ability and graduated with a degree in electrical engineering. My mother's aunt owns a brownstone in Harlem which is worth over a million dollars if she cared to sell it. Her family, upon immigrating from Jamaica, bought several such properties. Not one of them were ever on the dole. As for me? I received a scholarship due to my writing portfolio evaluation and good academic record. Race had ZILCH to do with it. Both my husband and I are pretty successful and our kids, thank God, are on a good track. So, go on, and keep reminding us again why we're so awful..it just makes us laugh because our reality is pretty good.

We are the product of assimilation. Our culture is American, which is not "white culture". This is not unusual among our generation. We have little ties, with the exception of maybe certain holidays, to wherever we originated. And we're fine with that. You can associate with whomever you want..doesn't matter to us. Like I said upthread, you keep your nonsense to yourself, we're good.

PS - our family is beautiful too
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Old 02-28-2015, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
10,102 posts, read 9,333,194 times
Reputation: 13180
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConeyGirl52 View Post
I saw a discussion about this back in the '90s. I liked what Mario VanPeebles had to say:

It's not about Black and White anymore. The color is Green. If you've got it, you pretty much do what you want.



The color green here symbolizes money.
Yup. I've found the more money one attains, the more options you have. We are about to close on a home that is almost a half million dollars. I doubt the neighborhood is going to have mass white migration because we, through hard work, are able to buy there. As long as you care about your property and are a decent human being, you're ok. Of course, there will be the dullards around, and I emphatically say 'then move'. I don't care.
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Old 02-28-2015, 11:52 AM
 
2,721 posts, read 2,148,717 times
Reputation: 4042
Of course it is learned. But is it truly learned from parents sitting there saying 'listen Johnny, black people are bad.' Or is it learned through one's own experiences and observations?

I think there is a difference between being racist in the sense of hating everyone just bc of their race and prejudging individuals, vs. Believing many stereotypes really hold true.

If I am walking down the street at 1am and on one side of the street, there's a bunch of dorky white guys with glasses and comb overs and on the other side, there are a Bunch of black dudes with their hoods up and pants below their behind, what should I do? Could the guy guys actually be serial killers and the black dudes were the neighborhood watch group? Sure. But I think I'll play the odds.
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Old 02-28-2015, 12:11 PM
 
15,304 posts, read 16,863,154 times
Reputation: 15028
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz View Post
It's really just 'culturalism' ... black people especially the males tend to be more violent due to the way they were brought up and the fact they are often in poverty... now why they are in poverty is open to debate.. whether it's white oppression, their cultural upbringing, or a little bit of both, but the fact of the matter is most people don't dislike other races because of their skin color, but rather because of their behaviors and customs. Raise a black child in a white suburban neighborhood that talks like a white and is well educated and people hardly notice... have a white kid grow up listening to rap music and blasting it around town and dressing with pants to his knees and people definitely notice...

Most whites and asians seem to get along just fine and you often see pockets of asians and whites living together.

You occasionally see blacks and mexicans living together as well.. when you look at the 'racial dot map' and browse around major cities... but the amount of segregation is actually quite striking to see... entire segments of major cities that are 'all mexican' or 'all black' .. also a look at south Texas on the racial dot map will show a side to America that many don't realize is there.

What the media is trying to do is strip the more hardcore aspects from people's culture and have a more open, tolerant attitude for all cultures.. also known as a 'melting pot' ... this would cause people to 'get along' better.. I don't fault them for this... but government policies involving the war on drugs and the like.. and the upbringing of kids in the inner city... it's an uphill battle...
I taught my black kids that their elite upbringing would protect them from discrimination. I was wrong. - The Washington Post

Quote:
Even though the idea wasn’t fully formed, I somehow assumed that privilege would insulate a person from discrimination. This was years before I would learn of the research by Peggy McIntosh, the Wellesley College professor who coined the phrase “white male privilege,” to describe the inherent advantages one group in our society has over others in terms of freedom from discriminatory stops, profiling and arrests. As a teenager, I didn’t have such a sophisticated view, other than to wish I were privileged enough to escape the bias I encountered.
Quote:
The boarding-school incident this summer was a turning point for us — particularly for my son and his younger siblings. Being called a ****** was, of course, a depressing moment for us all. But it was also a moment that helped bring our surroundings into clearer focus. The fact that it happened just days before the police shooting of Michael Brown increased its resonance for our family. Our teenage son no longer makes eye contact with pedestrians or drivers who pass on the street or sidewalk. He ceased visiting the school library this summer after sundown, and now refuses to visit the neighborhood library, just one block away, unless accompanied. He asks us to bear with him because, as he explains, he knows that the experience is unlikely to happen again, but he doesn’t like the uncertainty. He says he now feels both vulnerable and resentful whenever he is required to walk unaccompanied.
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Old 02-28-2015, 12:27 PM
 
15,304 posts, read 16,863,154 times
Reputation: 15028
Quote:
Originally Posted by louie0406 View Post
How about when they deemed the NYC fire dept exam "racist" and ruled that the test be dumbed down because they claimed it discriminated against minorities?

Now on earth can en exam be considered discriminatory? Either you know the material or you don't. Its the same exact exam for people of all races.
That particular exam is interesting.

FDNY's Black Firefighter Problem | Village Voice

The actual test questions were very weird, but probably not discriminatory unless the minorities in question had less proficiency in the complicated English language used (not a function of race really). It is not a question of dumbing down the test, but actually testing what is needed for the job rather than ridiculous stuff.
The article has a lot of good information about what the city could have done, but refused to do. The article is long though.

Quote:
In other words, Sabir, a black man, can’t get a job because he passed a test the court believes was intended to make him fail because of his race.
Quote:
“The Supreme Court said in 1971 that if you have a test, and you know that one racial or ethnic group is doing significantly worse than another on that exam,” Darius Charney, an attorney for the Center for Constitutional Rights, explains, “and you know—and here’s the important part that’s being missed—that the test doesn’t actually test the skills or the abilities that you need to have for that particular job, then that employer can’t use the test.”
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Old 02-28-2015, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
677 posts, read 505,271 times
Reputation: 966
Quote:
Originally Posted by riaelise View Post
All of those things that you are thumping your chest about are no big deal. My family (on both sides, and not coming from Europe) worked hard, never took government handouts, and did well. My father before he retired was making a six figure income and owns property in Latin America. Not bad for someone who is clearly non-European, knew barely a lick of English, and had to start his life in rough New York City. He attended Northeastern on a scholarship due to his academic ability and graduated with a degree in electrical engineering. My mother's aunt owns a brownstone in Harlem which is worth over a million dollars if she cared to sell it. Her family, upon immigrating from Jamaica, bought several such properties. Not one of them were ever on the dole. As for me? I received a scholarship due to my writing portfolio evaluation and good academic record. Race had ZILCH to do with it. Both my husband and I are pretty successful and our kids, thank God, are on a good track. So, go on, and keep reminding us again why we're so awful..it just makes us laugh because our reality is pretty good.

We are the product of assimilation. Our culture is American, which is not "white culture". This is not unusual among our generation. We have little ties, with the exception of maybe certain holidays, to wherever we originated. And we're fine with that. You can associate with whomever you want..doesn't matter to us. Like I said upthread, you keep your nonsense to yourself, we're good.

PS - our family is beautiful too
Why must you continually post about how 'successful' you and your husband are? Now it's your family. Seems to show some insecurities ... Money doesn't make one a good person.

Last edited by Better Than You; 02-28-2015 at 12:40 PM..
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Old 02-28-2015, 12:35 PM
 
15,304 posts, read 16,863,154 times
Reputation: 15028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
Private companies generally hire the white applicant over the minority applicant, even if the minority applicant is more skilled on paper. This has been well documented and there's plenty of examples.
Interesting that discrimination against women in hiring musicians has been happening and that switching to *blind* auditions has helped. Since the judges don't know if a man or woman is behind the screen, they judge more fairly.

Orchestrating Impartiality: The Impact of "Blind" Auditions on Female Musicians

Quote:
Discrimination against women has been alleged in hiring practices for many occupations, but it is extremely difficult to demonstrate sex-biased hiring.
Quote:
Using data from actual auditions in an individual fixed-effects framework, we find that the screen increases by 50% the probability a woman will be advanced out of certain preliminary rounds. The screen also enhances, by severalfold, the likelihood a female contestant will be the winner in the final round.
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Old 02-28-2015, 12:43 PM
 
15,304 posts, read 16,863,154 times
Reputation: 15028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clampdown69 View Post
Didn't read the whole thread.

I agree that hateful racism is learned. No one is born to call people the n word or something.

However preferences, like the tendency for people (of all ethnicities) to seek out communties where people who look like them is an innate behavior from the time when we were still tribal, all living things unconsciously seek safety in similarity.

I also disagree that not wanting to marry or reproduce out of your race makes you a bigot. I am white, all of my traits physically are recessive and if i have a kid with a black or Asian or Spanish chick likelihood is the traits I have light eyes and fair skin will not be passed on and will die out. Look at Mexicans, they are the product of white spaniards and Indians (natives not Asians obviously). The dominant traits of dark skin, and dark hair and eyes over powered the white european genes.
Preferences especially sexual preferences are not necessarily racist.

While racism is learned, it can be unlearned though.

How the Kindness of a Black Man Changed the Mind of a KKK Kingpin » Sociological Images

Quote:
Watts expressed kindness and love towards Clary, even in the face of escalating violence (Clary ultimately set fire to his church). Deeply affected by Watts, Clary would eventually recant his association with the KKK and join Watts in the fight against racism.
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