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Old 02-27-2015, 09:16 AM
 
4,914 posts, read 5,524,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG5 View Post



The discussion was about financial aid and scholarships provided to minorities, not having different exams for those of different races.
So what is your take on it? Do you think certain exams such as the one to become a fireman should be dumbed down in order to make it easier for minorities to be able to pass?
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Old 02-27-2015, 09:41 AM
 
Location: H-Tine, Texas
6,742 posts, read 3,870,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
You made two different points.

  • Hiring and admissions based on lineage or sex instead of skills, qualifications or training, creates dependence upon the government policy that mandates it. Skills, qualifications or training has been made irrelevant as are the incentives to get them. i.e. Dependant class of people. This has been proven thoughout history and not just in the USA and not just on race or sex. The class system in the UK is an example.
  • Your second point is a generalization not related to what I posted. Companies and colleges are indeed not falling apart because the women and minorities hired have the skills, qualifications and training necessary for their jobs. i.e. They got their job without relying on a quota.
If female and minority candidates are just as qualified for a position as their white, male counterpart, based on past hiring practices, if that's considered a dependence upon government policy, then that's the way it has to be. Like I said, there are factual, well-documented reasons as to why AA was created.

I highly doubt Apple or Halliburton is going to hire a woman or minority who doesn't possess the necessary skills to do the job, but only hire them so they can fill a quota or not face any discrimination lawsuits. We aren't talking about a woman or a minority who graduated from Who Cares University with an irrelevant degree and below average GPA getting a job over the white male who graduated from UCLA with a 3.9 GPA in the program relevant to the job.

As to your second point, I don't follow. In one point you say skills, qualifications and training have been made irrelevant, but then turn around and say the women and minorities hired got their job without relying on a quota or government policy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by louie0406 View Post
So what is your take on it? Do you think certain exams such as the one to become a fireman should be dumbed down in order to make it easier for minorities to be able to pass?
I haven't taken the exam, so I don't know.
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Old 02-27-2015, 09:50 AM
 
Location: La Mesa Aka The Table
7,184 posts, read 7,517,679 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louie0406 View Post
So what is your take on it? {b]Do you think certain exams such as the one to become a fireman should be dumbed down in order to make it easier for minorities to be able to pass?[b]
No! And there will never be a different set of test for minorities applicants.
Some of you guys have watched "American history X" way to much. A good friend of mine happens to a Battalion Chief and a Minority here southern California. He mentioned at one time, the Fire Department was Biggest Benefactor of Nepotism in the State Followed by corrections officers. When Affirmative Action came into play, whites were still being hired 4-1 over any minority. A lot of white applicants( usually Relatives of current fireman) were putting down that they were American Indian Heritage or of Hispanic Heritage to qualify for Affirmative Action. If it happened Like That here in SoCal i imangne it probably happened all over.
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Old 02-27-2015, 10:01 AM
 
6,795 posts, read 6,591,740 times
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Private companies generally hire the white applicant over the minority applicant, even if the minority applicant is more skilled on paper. This has been well documented and there's plenty of examples.
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Old 02-27-2015, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,088 posts, read 7,316,417 times
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^^True because they tend to be well raised and do not cause problems in the workplace.
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Old 02-27-2015, 10:34 AM
 
Location: H-Tine, Texas
6,742 posts, read 3,870,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix C View Post
^^True because they tend to be well raised and do not cause problems in the workplace.
I would love to see some evidence to support this statement. Posts like this show why we have AA.
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Old 02-27-2015, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
6,820 posts, read 2,544,409 times
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"Kids have to be taught to hate, and it's our parents and grandparents (and our teachers and coaches, too) who teach us to hate. Kids become the product of that environment."

I'm not sure I agree with this premise. Distrust of the "other" is a primal instinct, and necessary for survival in a primitive environment. It's one of those evolutionary leftovers that we try to rise above when we form more civilized societies, much like our baser sexual urges and our propensity for violence.

I think there is a belief among some people that if you can prove something is natural, you also prove that it is good. That is not necessarily the case, or at least it is only the case in a certain context. Perhaps it is a holdover from debates on homosexuality, where people try to argue whether it is natural or not as a way of proving whether it is harmful to society or not. Racism can be perfectly natural and still be a trait that we seek to rise above. I just hope that if we do ever rise above it we do not lose our ability to discriminate when appropriate. It's a useful ability when you're in a pinch.
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Old 02-27-2015, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,088 posts, read 7,316,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG5 View Post
I would love to see some evidence to support this statement. Posts like this show why we have AA.
Actual life. Worked among blacks for over 30 years now. But it is culture not color. Plenty of white folk and other non-black types let go for being difficult.

You would not acknowledge the evidence if presented to you as you obviously are biased. What is racism to some is just plain telling like it is to others.
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Old 02-27-2015, 11:08 AM
 
Location: La Mesa Aka The Table
7,184 posts, read 7,517,679 times
Reputation: 7974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix C View Post
^^True because they tend to be well raised and do not cause problems in the workplace.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaht!
I hope you have your Flame suit on because, here it Comes!
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Old 02-27-2015, 11:11 AM
 
Location: H-Tine, Texas
6,742 posts, read 3,870,112 times
Reputation: 8522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix C View Post
Actual life. Worked among blacks for over 30 years now. But it is culture not color. Plenty of white folk and other non-black types let go for being difficult.

You would not acknowledge the evidence if presented to you as you obviously are biased. What is racism to some is just plain telling like it is to others.
Oh really.

Because,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
Private companies generally hire the white applicant over the minority applicant, even if the minority applicant is more skilled on paper. This has been well documented and there's plenty of examples.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix C View Post
^^True because they tend to be well raised and do not cause problems in the workplace.

You said nothing about culture, the above poster made a distinction about white applicants vs. minority applicants - nothing was said about culture specifically, and nothing was said about blacks specifically.

And then you turn around and say, well plenty of white folk get let go for being difficult, too, after you said they don't cause problems in the workplace.

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