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Old 02-27-2015, 04:33 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
9,033 posts, read 8,384,183 times
Reputation: 5652

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Wow.

http://www.rferl.org/content/nemtsov.../26873635.html

Now here come the Putin apologists:

"It was probably just a robbery!"

"The CIA did it to make Putin look bad!"

"The shooting was faked and he has really fled to Lithuania to mastermind an anti-Russian conspiracy!"

etc.
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Old 02-27-2015, 06:22 PM
 
8,242 posts, read 8,518,986 times
Reputation: 10213
Damn, that place is falling apart.

Really awful. Thanks for the link.
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Old 02-27-2015, 06:46 PM
 
Location: southern kansas
7,633 posts, read 5,126,912 times
Reputation: 16439
It was reported on ABC News that Putin was going to personally take charge of the investigation. I have no doubt that he will do exactly that. But I wouldn't count on anything resembling the truth to come out of it.
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Old 02-27-2015, 11:34 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
698 posts, read 507,281 times
Reputation: 786
Actually they are already on the "false flag" meme. Apparently to the Russia Today and Infowars crowd this was a CIA hit meant to discredit Putin and foment some sort of instability within Russia. These people are in a black hole of denial and arrogance. Too far gone to admit they've been taken. To the sane, Putin may not have had any direct involvement in this man's death but rather created within Russia an ultra-nationalist, borderline religious cult in the country that is rife with devotees willing to do what is necessary to protect the faith and its self-proclaimed savior. They didn't need direct orders; not so much as a wink and a nod. This murder results from the unrelenting indoctrination on the supposed importance to Russia of Putin's reign as president.
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Old 03-01-2015, 11:26 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
9,033 posts, read 8,384,183 times
Reputation: 5652
^^^ Yes, that's exactly what the RT zombies are saying. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
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Old 03-01-2015, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Type 0.7 Kardashev
10,577 posts, read 6,840,730 times
Reputation: 37337
Quote:
Originally Posted by catdad7x View Post
It was reported on ABC News that Putin was going to personally take charge of the investigation. I have no doubt that he will do exactly that. But I wouldn't count on anything resembling the truth to come out of it.
Note the parallels with Stalin taking charge of the investigation into the assassination of Sergei Kirov in 1934.

No, I am neither arguing that Putin has established the power Stalin had (Stalin's USSR was a totalitarian state - Putin's Russia is an authoritarian oligarchy with a fair amount of devolved practical power, much to Putin's chagrin) nor that he is paranoid (he seems far more lucid).

However, Stalin saw Kirov as a threat, liquidated him, and pinned the killing on anyone who might also conceivably be a threat, and used the assassination as an excuse to kill them. I suspect Putin himself was not behind this. First, Putin usually just tosses his opponents in jail rather than whacking them. Second, whacking them in front of the Kremlin denies the plausible deniability which Putin usually embraces. But as with Stalin after Kirov's death, he will seek to use the killing against his domestic opponents.

It's a shame Russia is such a basket-case. But they are a fading power, with a dysfunctional economy in the best of times, and wallowing in a demographic time-bomb. They're a sad shell of the former USSR - yes, as pathetic as that is, they're not even up to the bleak and marginal standards of the Russian 'heydey' of Khruschev and Brezhnev.

Too bad for places like Ukraine and Georgia, but at worst Vladimir Putin is just a regional posturer, boosting his own domestic power by policies that are terrible for Russia. Unfortunately, the Russian people refuse to demand better.
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Old 03-01-2015, 12:54 PM
 
Location: southern kansas
7,633 posts, read 5,126,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
Note the parallels with Stalin taking charge of the investigation into the assassination of Sergei Kirov in 1934.

No, I am neither arguing that Putin has established the power Stalin had (Stalin's USSR was a totalitarian state - Putin's Russia is an authoritarian oligarchy with a fair amount of devolved practical power, much to Putin's chagrin) nor that he is paranoid (he seems far more lucid).

However, Stalin saw Kirov as a threat, liquidated him, and pinned the killing on anyone who might also conceivably be a threat, and used the assassination as an excuse to kill them. I suspect Putin himself was not behind this. First, Putin usually just tosses his opponents in jail rather than whacking them. Second, whacking them in front of the Kremlin denies the plausible deniability which Putin usually embraces. But as with Stalin after Kirov's death, he will seek to use the killing against his domestic opponents.

It's a shame Russia is such a basket-case. But they are a fading power, with a dysfunctional economy in the best of times, and wallowing in a demographic time-bomb. They're a sad shell of the former USSR - yes, as pathetic as that is, they're not even up to the bleak and marginal standards of the Russian 'heydey' of Khruschev and Brezhnev.

Too bad for places like Ukraine and Georgia, but at worst Vladimir Putin is just a regional posturer, boosting his own domestic power by policies that are terrible for Russia. Unfortunately, the Russian people refuse to demand better.
Yes, and the scary thing is they still have nuclear weapons.
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Old 03-01-2015, 12:59 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
72,884 posts, read 64,340,187 times
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haha, Nemtsov is killed just days before a planned protest of Putin's government! This will only add fuel to the fire. Did "someone" think this would actually solve anything?

Russia's a great place to live if you can get access to power and money, and form your own mafia. You can be king of your hill. It's the land of opportunity for the corrupt.
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Old 03-01-2015, 01:28 PM
 
610 posts, read 557,243 times
Reputation: 1299
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5trillion View Post
Actually they are already on the "false flag" meme. Apparently to the Russia Today and Infowars crowd this was a CIA hit meant to discredit Putin and foment some sort of instability within Russia. These people are in a black hole of denial and arrogance. Too far gone to admit they've been taken. To the sane, Putin may not have had any direct involvement in this man's death but rather created within Russia an ultra-nationalist, borderline religious cult in the country that is rife with devotees willing to do what is necessary to protect the faith and its self-proclaimed savior. They didn't need direct orders; not so much as a wink and a nod. This murder results from the unrelenting indoctrination on the supposed importance to Russia of Putin's reign as president.
Would that really be THAT surprising, though? I find it basically equally as possible that some CIA guys did it to delegitimize Putin, as Putin did it himself, especially considering we're in the midst of this Ukraine garbage. The CIA has no qualms about doing really messed up **** and then blaming it on people they don't like. Putin has no qualms about killing off his political opposition and, possibly more troubling, journalists that report on things unfavorable to his position.

Consider the warhawks at Brookings and the CFR and Chicago Council and their sock-puppets on CNN and Fox... and how often they clamor about "Russian aggression," and advise the U.S. government to actually INCREASE the tensions in Lughansk, and yet completely fail to mention that the entire coup in Ukraine was orchestrated entirely by the U.S. state department: Victoria Nuland, Samatha Power, Jeffery Pyatt and their ilk. Consider that they (CNN, MSNBC, Fox) make not a peep about the Svoboda and Right Sektor guys literally running the Ukrainian security forces, but are unabashed in their criticism of the supposedly far-right ways of Vladimir Putin.

As Gideon Rose explained on the Colbert Report:

http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/video...---gideon-rose

Ohh... hahaha... we wanna distract Russia at the olympics and run away with Ukraine... ahahaha...

Seriously, this is how these people think. Putin is a horrible person. After all, he's a politician, and a particularly authoritarian one at that. But anyone who isn't duped by CNN and Fox knows that this fight was picked by the American State Department, and now they need to come up with creative ways to legitimize their own plight and delegitimize that of Putin's.

Even Henry Kissinger, who probably has more blood on his hands than just about any other war-hawk military architect, gave in interview in Der Spiegel basically saying yeah, this was the West's fault, we need to tone down the rhetoric and stop believing our own lie we're peddling to people to dupe them into going along with this:

Interview with Henry Kissinger on State of Global Politics - SPIEGEL ONLINE

And, if you think that Brookings and the CC and CFR actually have any marriage to the truth whatsoever in their analysis of the current situation, just take a look at their donor reports and see who's REALLY giving them money, Lockheed, Raytheon, General Dynamics, etc.

Do I think Putin did it? I don't know, probably. Is it THAT far fetched to think Western operatives may have to try and delegitimize him so they could run off with Ukraine? I really don't think so.

Also, as a side-note, you really can't pretend that Putin represents the ultra-nationalist fringe in Russia, which, actually, is probably not a fringe and more likely the most popular opposition stance. Putin is a moderate in Russia. Vladimir Zhirinovsky is more along the lines of the nationalists. Or, there's RNU, which is SUPER far-right, but has less support. Putin toes the line and is right-leaning. He's kind of like a Richard Nixon of Russia or something.

Last edited by leavingIL; 03-01-2015 at 01:59 PM..
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Old 03-01-2015, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, not Paris. #MAGA.
9,693 posts, read 5,293,719 times
Reputation: 9671
I'm far from being a conspiracy theorist, but I'm not convinced this was the Russian government (and, note, there are enough crazed Putin fanatics where the government/secret police may not have needed to carry out this murder). After all, knowing the bad publicity that a dead body of a major opposition leader would bring, why wouldn't the Russian government simply "disappear" the opposition leader?
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