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Old 03-02-2015, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,088 posts, read 6,415,375 times
Reputation: 18057

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpinionInOcala View Post
As with anything else, it's important for us to condemn and discard the bad eggs and appreciate the good ones. Personally, I believe LEO & CJ corruption is more frequent than the fervent defenders suggest, but nowhere near as bad as the legion of feigned outrage believes it is.
I completely agree with this. But I also think that some departments are protecting the bad ones. That kind of overall corruption is the problem. And no, it's not all or even most of the departments in the country. A good police officer is a priceless asset to his or her community and should be celebrated. A bad one should be treated like the criminal he or she acts like, and put in prison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
The problem is not that cops are scofflaws any more than the average citizen is. The problem is that cops should be held to a higher standard, but aren't. We put special trust in them, and we let them violate that trust with no more consequences than the average citizen would face. Violation of the trust we put in cops should be considered an extremely serious crime. If not, it's the same as fascism. It's the attitude that's steering our course inevitably in the long term direction of fascism. The attitude that cops are just doing their jobs and should not be held to a higher standard than anyone else. It seems like an innocent attitude, but the same can be said of a lot of attitudes of the past that led to some of the worst evils in history.

What fascist types are presently saying about liberals is similar to what Nazi types were saying about Jews in the 1920's. It would have seemed relatively innocent in the 1920's, because they didn't yet know what was going to happen in the 1930's and 40's. For that reason, I consider what's happening with cops and fascist types to be a very urgent problem, that has to be solved, urgently, before it gets out of hand.

For that reason, we need a very strict zero tolerance policy towards wrongdoing by cops. The slightest wrongdoing should automatically get them fired and forever prohibited from police work. But the problem is that most people are leaning towards support of the cops and being lenient on their wrongdoing. Like Germany in the 1920's, they have no way to know what's coming, and no reason to be concerned about it.
Excellent post. But instead of saying that police should be held to a higher standard, I would only ask that they be held to the SAME standard, so that the ones who do wrong are handled the same way a civilian would if they committed a crime like assault or theft, murder or rape. Police are human. Some people are bad. But the bad ones should all be held to the same legal standards and there should be no special protections for officers of the law. If a civilian is carrying concealed, legally, and is walking through a bad neighborhood, and sees someone walking on the same public sidewalk, and feels twitchy and afraid, even though they are potentially in danger, they aren't allowed to draw and shoot if they don't have clear and absolute justification for it. "Fear for your life" must be supported by facts. A crazy person yelling weird stuff at you, it's scary, but it's not justification to confront, assault, or kill a person, for instance. The problem isn't that a few cops do this, the problem is that they can too often get away with it, and not only are they protected from consequence, too many citizens will justify it and excuse it. How is it that things got the way they did in Nazi Germany, why did the regular people not stand up and cry foul? Because it was "somebody else." If we don't actively defend our freedoms, there are those in the world who will abuse them and destroy them.
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Old 03-02-2015, 04:58 PM
 
26,163 posts, read 14,607,172 times
Reputation: 17235
Quote:
Originally Posted by geos
It just gets sicker and sicker
Yuip the police have very scary powers!!!!!!

If you ever get stopped by one,DO NOT HAVE A BAD ATTITUDE!!!! (They can yank you out of the car JUST FOR THAT!!)
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Old 03-02-2015, 05:47 PM
 
1,476 posts, read 959,838 times
Reputation: 2964
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I completely agree with this. But I also think that some departments are protecting the bad ones. That kind of overall corruption is the problem. And no, it's not all or even most of the departments in the country. A good police officer is a priceless asset to his or her community and should be celebrated. A bad one should be treated like the criminal he or she acts like, and put in prison.

Excellent post. But instead of saying that police should be held to a higher standard, I would only ask that they be held to the SAME standard, so that the ones who do wrong are handled the same way a civilian would if they committed a crime like assault or theft, murder or rape. Police are human. Some people are bad. But the bad ones should all be held to the same legal standards and there should be no special protections for officers of the law. If a civilian is carrying concealed, legally, and is walking through a bad neighborhood, and sees someone walking on the same public sidewalk, and feels twitchy and afraid, even though they are potentially in danger, they aren't allowed to draw and shoot if they don't have clear and absolute justification for it. "Fear for your life" must be supported by facts. A crazy person yelling weird stuff at you, it's scary, but it's not justification to confront, assault, or kill a person, for instance. The problem isn't that a few cops do this, the problem is that they can too often get away with it, and not only are they protected from consequence, too many citizens will justify it and excuse it. How is it that things got the way they did in Nazi Germany, why did the regular people not stand up and cry foul? Because it was "somebody else." If we don't actively defend our freedoms, there are those in the world who will abuse them and destroy them.
Agreed. It should be noted that this isn't limited to police forces of course. Internal protection occurs virtually everywhere, from one's home to one's government. It's unfortunate and there should be a greater effort made to expose and correct such problems (at all levels) rather than continue concealing the truth, as doing so hurts everyone. People are increasingly prone to dishonesty, at times without even realizing it. That's inherently dangerous to society and it seems to me that it requires much more effort.

I do believe that police ought to be held to a higher standard though, particularly while on-duty. Police are entrusted with access to and use of personal information, a firearm, and the authority to take away your possessions, your freedom, and even your life. Not everyone can, or should, have that ability, and saying "well they're only human" is one step short of excusing abuses of power when they occur. Nobody would excuse a surgeon who operated on a person knowing they'd never wake up because the surgeon wanted to earn more money. Nobody would simply excuse a parent who beat their child to death because the parent got carried away with corporal punishment. The officer takes an oath to defend the Constitution; the doctor takes an oath to do no harm; a parent accepts the responsibility of both creating and caring for new life. These are things that ought to be taken very seriously.

There are limits for all sorts of actions in life, and many of those limits (such as those alluded to above) are necessary. Humans as a species are prone to error but have the ability to learn from mistakes, reflect upon them, and better themselves thereafter. That's why you and I are able to engage in this virtual conversation. If everything were excusable as being a part of the 'human condition,' we'd still be living a tribal existence; selling our women, pimping out our children, and killing our neighbors en masse simply because we can. I can't imagine any thinking individual desiring to return to that way of life, and I suspect you're certainly not an exception.
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Old 03-02-2015, 05:48 PM
 
13,076 posts, read 12,604,771 times
Reputation: 37625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolhand68 View Post
People can, but the OP has proven he is anti-cop. In another of his threads he sympathizes with those who shoot cops. I understand there are corrupt cops and I have had first hand experience with corrupt cops myself. However, I also know that this country would be in a total state of chaos if every cop in the nation decided not to go to work next week. These snotty libs and protesters would be the first to cry for help.

If you are being robbed or assaulted do you call the police or the ACLU?
So why the all-or-nothing outlook?

The OP isn't someone you agree with, but this trend has been widely documented.

No one is saying that cops are entirely ineffective and we'd be better off without them- that's a straw man argument people who shriek "cop haters!" love to use. But there are numerous perfectly reasonable people that think police officers should be held to standards and not allowed to get away with stuff just because they're cops. The fact that they have a higher rate of domestic violence than the general population is a major point of concern that no one is addressing, actually.

I am the first person to commend the cops that I have encountered as a law-abiding citizen - I was in three car accidents (one that was my fault), and the responding police were wonderful each time.

At the same time though, I have heard numerous first-hand stories from people I respect of cops using their authority to stalk the women they have had relationships with. I've also witnessed the sense of entitlement with which many cops conduct themselves socially (tickets of friends forgiven, drunk driving episodes brushed under the carpet, bragging about confronting people with their guns), and don't get me started on PBA cards.

And then of course, there was the time my harmless drunk of a neighbor was nearly shot behind my apartment building over a misunderstanding in which he thought he'd been doing the responsible thing. And let's not forget the time the cops were speeding through my 25 mph suburban housing development (filled with playing children and returning commuters) without sirens and nearly ran into me twice as I tried to clear the area because they were ignoring the stop signs - they were basically putting everyone at risk to catch a kid who had stolen a stereo from a house.

I have very few contacts with police, but aside from my car accidents, they have been largely negative experiences. They do a hard job, but that doesn't mean they get to run roughshod over the civilians they encounter and abuse their powers. If they can't maintain standards, then they should find another job.

And btw, I'm the granddaughter of a police chief.
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Old 03-02-2015, 06:24 PM
eok
 
6,684 posts, read 2,984,966 times
Reputation: 8449
When I say cops should be held to a higher standard, I simply mean any crime they commit should be considered much more serious and should prevent them from ever being cops again. That's because it's stupid to trust the average person to be a cop. We should only entrust that duty to people who have a solid habit of never committing any crimes at all. Presently we entrust all kinds of bums with guns and power against the public. We're extremely stupid to give that kind of trust to people who haven't earned it.

And just because I say cops should be held to a higher standard, doesn't mean they will be. That would be like saying the Nazi party should have been outlawed before committing mass murders. It's a meaningless thing to say, because saying it doesn't make it happen. Society is stupid, and no matter how much people protest that stupidity, there is no way to stop it.
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Old 03-02-2015, 07:06 PM
 
341 posts, read 195,788 times
Reputation: 867
[quote=Javacoffee;38637833]In all my decades of driving and getting stopped by the cops for one thing or another, I've never been beaten, threatened, assaulted, tasered or robbed by a cop. Hallelujah, I'm a miracle!!![/quote]

Do you get pulled over by police often?
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Old 03-03-2015, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Texas
32,884 posts, read 17,902,511 times
Reputation: 18911
Lightbulb Look beyond the obvious...

Quote:
Originally Posted by geos View Post
It just gets sicker and sicker. Stealing is now considered law enforcement. Do not drive with large amounts of cash or valuables. Cops can now "legally" discover your money sort of the way Europeans "discovered" America while there were people already here. I think they call that precedence.

Police have seized $2.5 billion from citizens who weren't breaking the law.

...because things tend to be connected in nonobvious ways.

Over the past couple of decades, "tax cuts for the rich" at the federal level have drastically increased unfunded mandates that require state and local agencies to provide services that they have to pay for. They're left scrambling for ways to make up the difference. This is one of them.

It stinks.

But there it is.
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Old 03-14-2015, 11:42 AM
 
Location: state of enlightenment
2,391 posts, read 4,580,039 times
Reputation: 2435
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer View Post
Yawn//police hater.. no story.. bogus...

It makes some wonder about what the criminal history might be of a person with the agenda put forth.. care to enlighten us?
YAWN. There's no brutality, corruption and murder cop worshipers can't explain away with lies, coverups and deceit.
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Old 03-14-2015, 12:21 PM
 
Location: zooland 1
3,744 posts, read 3,300,282 times
Reputation: 5495
Quote:
Originally Posted by geos View Post
YAWN. There's no brutality, corruption and murder cop worshipers can't explain away with lies, coverups and deceit.

And so tell me police corruption expert.. what have you done to improve the quality of your neighborhood???.. put on a uniform like me and serve my community everyday.. I doubt it

You (not you personally for that would not be in good keeping with being polite and identify "you" personally...and as such the "you" I'm referring to in my post is a global "you" referencing all police haters and whiners that spew out bunk.. that's all there is to it."You" sit behind your computers and spout off because "you".. "you" can lie, make up agendas, cherry pick facts and basically smear a whole occupation because "you" are sick puppy dogs.... Police today are some of the most responsive agents of government out there

Most Americans could not be held to the standards most police have to abide by everyday... you couldn't pass the background the polygraph the drug test the physical the psychological the academy the year of probation six months with an fto.. you couldn't pass the post standards...you couldn't adhere to the manual of policy and procedures or could you? Would you be the 1 percent of coppers that don't do the job right and are corrupt or use to much force or do bad things and disgrace the uniform.. yes,, you might be one of those

Have "you" ever lived or worked in the ghetto for any time? and done anything to improve it.. have you ever worked for a pal league.. done a community barbeque.. a car wash.. a fundraiser for a sick kid.. taken them Christmas presents.. done CPR on a baby of color.. delivered several.. have you ever consoled a minority elderly shut-in, helped rebuild a house that was burned down.. for free...

These are the kinds of things I do and coppers like me.. have done everyday of our careers

"You".. all "you" do is whine and protest.. but .. maybe there is hope.. maybe you can actually do something positive and make a real change in your community.. that is if you have ever been within 100 miles of a ghetto station

I shun people like "you".. because "you" are part of the problem... maybe you're a crook.. maybe you're a dope smoker.. maybe you're none of these things and just some looneytoon who got too many tickets...maybe "you" got your panties in a wad for getting searched one time..thinking "you" are special and "its outrageous"..whatever your beef is... it isn't sustainable.. "you" can chose to work within the system and make changes or get identified as a pathetic spudnut

Some things we as police cant fix.. poverty.. abuse.. neglect.. we get to deal with those things...
Crooked coppers aren't protected.. but everyone including police have rights.. "you" might read the California Bill of Rights for police officers to see what those actually are.. "you" can also thank UNIONS for slowing down bad coppers getting fired.. and good coppers from getting shafted.

I fix life problems for people.. one person at a time.. what have "you" done today? I dont take from my community..and I pay for the air I breathe everyday.. do "you"? I have never taken anything for free... and I always pay more for anything some shop owner wants to discount to me because I wear a uniform// NO ONE OWNS me.. and some little silly person like "you" will never be able to point and say "see.. they are all crooked"

If I could seize a crooks money legally I would do so in a heartbeat.. but it isnt that easy.. especially working patrol.

Let's hope "you" can totally take care of yourself and I never have to give "you" service... but if I do "you" can just damn bet it will be the best job I can possibly deliver...

of course.. maybe it will just be handcuffs... but .. Ill do my best there too

Last edited by notmeofficer; 03-14-2015 at 12:35 PM..
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Old 03-14-2015, 12:26 PM
MJ7
 
6,221 posts, read 8,267,963 times
Reputation: 6492
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer View Post
And so tell me police corruption expert.. what have you done to improve the quality of your neighborhood???.. put on a uniform like me and serve my community everyday.. I doubt it

You (not you personally for that would not be in good keeping with being polite and identify "you" personally...and as such the "you" Im referring to in my post is a global "you" referencing all police haters and whiners that spew out bunk.. thats all there is to it."You" sit behind your computers and spout off because "you".. "you" can lie, make up agendas, cherry pick facts and basically smear a whole occupation because "you" are sick puppy dogs.... Police today are some of the most responsive agents of government out there

Most Americans could not be held to the standards most police have to abide by everyday... you couldn't pass the background the polygraph the drug test the physical the psychological the academy the year of probation six months with an fto.. you couldn't pass the post standards...you couldn't adhere to the manual of policy and procedures or could you? Would you be the 1 percent of coppers that don't do the job right and are corrupt or use to much force or do bad things and disgrace the uniform.. yes,, you might be one of those

Have "you" ever lived or worked in the ghetto for any time? and done anything to improve it.. have you ever worked for a pal league.. done a community barbeque.. a car wash.. a fundraiser for a sick kid.. taken them Christmas presents.. done CPR on a baby of color.. delivered several.. have you ever consoled a minority elderly shut-in, helped rebuild a house that was burned down.. for free...

These are the kinds of things I do and coppers like me.. have done everyday of our careers

"You".. all "you" do is whine and protest.. but .. maybe there hope.. maybe you can actually do something positive and make a real change in your community.. that is if you have ever been within 100 miles of a ghetto station

I shun people like "you".. because "you" are part of the problem... maybe you're a crook.. maybe you're a dope smoker.. maybe you're none of these things and just some looneytoon who got too many tickets...maybe "you" got your panties in a wad for getting searched one time..thinking "you" are special and "its outrageous"..whatever your beef is... it isn't sustainable.. "you" can chose to work within the system and make changes or get identified as a pathetic spudnut

Some things we as police cant fix.. poverty.. abuse.. neglect.. we get to deal with those things...
Crooked coppers aren't protected.. but everyone including police have rights.. "you" might read the California Bill of Rights for police officers to see what those actually are.. "you" can also thank UNIONS for slowing down bad coppers getting fired.. and good coppers getting shafted.

I fix life problems for people.. one person at a time.. what have "you" done today?
As much as I want to applaud you for your efforts, your ego and overture quickly deletes it from my mind. Yes, not all cops are bad people, in my experience I have dealt with good police offers (majority). Some are corrupt just like politicians and everyone seems to get the wrap. It seems like you might be on an ego trip with the above, take a slice of humble pie, eat it, digest it and spread the peace. No need to bash others that have a different opinion, instead share your experience and it might be received with an open ear, rather than a push back.
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