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Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,365 posts, read 2,148,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay5835
But the flower lady is the one "impos(ing her) beliefs...in connection with one specific, private event."
Just sell them the flowers, flower lady. You're a flower lady, for God's sake. The bride/bride or groom/groom just want to buy some flowers. Hence, they went to a flower lady, not knowing she was a Flower Lady for Jesus and His Ilk Only.
No, the flower lady is not sueing anyone - not yet anyway.
But the flower lady is the one "impos(ing her) beliefs...in connection with one specific, private event."
Just sell them the flowers, flower lady. You're a flower lady, for God's sake. The bride/bride or groom/groom just want to buy some flowers. Hence, they went to a flower lady, not knowing(??) she was a Flower Lady for Jesus and His Ilk Only.
Emphasis added
I'd like to know a bit more about all the parties involved before rushing to so simplistic a judgment.
Nearly a century ago, on a Sunday morning, a teenager went to a grocery store in Selinsgrove, PA to buy a quart of ice cream. Selinsgrove was the seat of a small county (Snyder) and the headquarters, at the time, of the largest single synod (similar to a Catholic diocese) of the Lutheran Church. The young lady turned out to be a shill, of sorts, and the merchant was promptly charged under the state's Sunday sales, or "blue" laws -- a case which went to the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, which upheld the law. The Federal Courts either refused to review the case, or the matter was not considered important enough, so the "blue" laws endured in Pennsylvania until well into the 1960's.
The point I seek to make here is that when major legal issues arise, the test cases are seldom "spontaneous"; someone has a point to prove, and wants their particular case to appear in the most sympathetic light. Particularly in rural areas, local small businesses often display the religious leanings of the owners by, for example, buying advertising in the local paper on a weekly page listing religious services. And LGBT militants can sometimes add fuel to the fire by choosing opposition known to act on impulse rather than show restraint.
But we aren't even sure of that much at this point. All we know is that the "flower lady" is in her later years, and holds strong religious beliefs, (which in the minds of some of the more tactless posters in this thread, is enough).
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 03-29-2015 at 06:13 PM..
I dont think thats true, how would you know unless they had BAPTIST tattooed on their forehead or something, lol. Or, they said, "Hi, Im Coney. Im a Baptist. Do you have an issue serving me a stack of flapjacks this morning?"
But there are health plans that refuse to cover contraception and abortion based on religious affiliation of the people providing the plan - not the employer, but the plan itself.
Thanks to Obamacare, if you buy your coverage, then you have the choice of which plan to buy. Likewise, a lot of large company's that provide coverage offer a choice of plans. The plans offered by my employer have always provided coverage for domestic partners.
Maybe I just suspect they are Baptists. Or perhaps they are wearing a pin proclaiming their religious affiliation.
There are health plans that do not cover contraception and abortion because the employer does not want it covered, lots of religious non-profits and now for-profit companies as well.
Health insurance is a benefit the employees earn, not a gift provided by their employer. It would be like an employer saying that they could not spend any of their paycheck on alcohol as their religious convictions are against consuming alcohol.
Wouldn't it be great if all those with sincere religious believes were as concerned about feeding the hungry and caring for the less fortunate as they are about what and who goes on in privacy of our bedrooms?
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,365 posts, read 2,148,041 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould
Maybe I just suspect they are Baptists. Or perhaps they are wearing a pin proclaiming their religious affiliation.
There are health plans that do not cover contraception and abortion because the employer does not want it covered, lots of religious non-profits and now for-profit companies as well.
Health insurance is a benefit the employees earn, not a gift provided by their employer. It would be like an employer saying that they could not spend any of their paycheck on alcohol as their religious convictions are against consuming alcohol.
Wouldn't it be great if all those with sincere religious believes were as concerned about feeding the hungry and caring for the less fortunate as they are about what and who goes on in privacy of our bedrooms?
Well, it IS a gift from your employer. There is no law forcing any employer to cover any employee - except for stuff like disability, workers compensation and unemployment.
Employees earn a paycheck, everything else is a benefit to make employment there more attractive to prospective employees.
Some Unions offer Health Insurance to members who work for certain agencies. Some of those Unions have wage class distinctions - benfit quality based on salary - and even provisions not to provide coverage for a week or more missed by said employee.
Where does anyone care about what goes on the privacy of your bedroom? Is their a peeping tom in your neighborhood or something?
I have found that usually, when I leave people alone, they leave me alone. I dont need anyone's validation but my own to merely exist. Neither does anyone else, as far as I am aware.
Emphasis added: not knowing(??) she was a Flower Lady for Jesus
Am I to infer by your red, bolded"??" that you think the couple in question knew ahead of time that the flower lady would turn down their request for flowers? Got proof? And even if you do, so what? The flower lady is still discriminating against a couple who want flowers for their wedding. It's as inane as it is offensive. Who cares where the flowers they sell are going once they leave the store? She is doing this for no other reason than to be a bigot. How much you want to bet Jay Sekulow is her lawyer?
Well, it IS a gift from your employer. There is no law forcing any employer to cover any employee - except for stuff like disability, workers compensation and unemployment.
Employees earn a paycheck, everything else is a benefit to make employment there more attractive to prospective employees.
Some Unions offer Health Insurance to members who work for certain agencies. Some of those Unions have wage class distinctions - benfit quality based on salary - and even provisions not to provide coverage for a week or more missed by said employee.
Health insurance is not a "gift" from your employer. No more than sick days, vacation, or paychecks are a gift.
Heath insurance is part of the compensation package that employers offer to workers in exchange for their labor.
Just as unions may not provide health coverage during specific times when person is not working, companies would not provide health insurance to people who are not currently working.
If it was a "gift," you'd think that the good Christian companies would keep providing this "gift" regardless of whether the person was working or not, now wouldn't you?
I think everybody remember the situation with "florist who refused to provide flowers for gay wedding rejects offer to settle discrimination case" (I wrote about that http://www.city-data.com/forum/curre...l#post38589145)
And now, the scandal begins... 1st shoe drops for Washington florist under fire for faith
The first shoe dropped Friday for Washington state florist Barronelle Stutzman, who has been convicted by the state in a case brought by the ACLU of discrimination for operating her business according to her Christian faith.
Now, she should pay big money, really big money for crime she didn't commit, what do you think guys?
Why our judicial system agree with this lawlessness?
Where in the Bible does God command His followers to not associate with homosexuals? If I was a florist, I wouldn't mind in the least having homosexuals for customers. If you open your business to the public, it's going to be a part of doing business. You're in business to make money and have happy, satisfied customers, not judge how adults have consensual sex.
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,365 posts, read 2,148,041 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould
Health insurance is not a "gift" from your employer. No more than sick days, vacation, or paychecks are a gift.
Heath insurance is part of the compensation package that employers offer to workers in exchange for their labor.
Just as unions may not provide health coverage during specific times when person is not working, companies would not provide health insurance to people who are not currently working.
If it was a "gift," you'd think that the good Christian companies would keep providing this "gift" regardless of whether the person was working or not, now wouldn't you?
Trust me on this. I work in the industry. Obamacare set up a Marketplace for working people to buy insurance. Obamacare did nothing to force employers to provide insurance. At best, employee's can beg their employer to set up a group for the business on the marketplace so employees get better deals on the insurance they are now forced by law to provide for themselves.
Again, their is no federal law forcing employers to provide their employees benefits, unless you live in state that has stipulated such to be the law of that state for employers.
Public jobs have always been noted for not-so-great pay, but better benefits than is offered by many private employers. Some large corporations volunteer good packages for the reason I previously stated.
Many people now work in part-time jobs, as that is all that is available to them. You dont even get unemployment if they deside to do away with that part-time position. The employer may set hour restrictions (i.e. 25 hours per week, and we give you health insurance. 20 hours per week, we do not give you health insurance).
On the other hand, many European countries provide Health Insurance as a benefit of citizenship, but America is not Europe.
Am I to infer by your red, bolded"??" that you think the couple in question knew ahead of time that the flower lady would turn down their request for flowers? Got proof? And even if you do, so what? The flower lady is still discriminating against a couple who want flowers for their wedding. It's as inane as it is offensive. Who cares where the flowers they sell are going once they leave the store? She is doing this for no other reason than to be a bigot. How much you want to bet Jay Sekulow is her lawyer?
Declining business because it conflicts with a person's religious or ethical beliefs hardly qualifies as bigotry; that would be the case only if the lady launched into a self-righteous sermon, and you have no proof of that.
And there are a number of mutual funds (most of them not too successful) which, for example, eschew investments in tobacco, alcohol or gambling for moral reasons. Others try to confine their portfolios to ventures which have been deemed sufficiently "green".
As I've already pointed out, there is a strong parallel between the disruptive behavior of the late Fred Phelps and his groupies, and the obvious desire of the most militant strains of the LGBT coalition to pick a fight with someone they don't always know, but have been conditioned to detest and harass. The only difference is that in this case, the shoe is on the other foot.
Where in the Bible does God command His followers to not associate with homosexuals? If I was a florist, I wouldn't mind in the least having homosexuals for customers. If you open your business to the public, it's going to be a part of doing business. You're in business to make money and have happy, satisfied customers, not judge how adults have consensual sex.
The florist knew one of the guys for years, he was a regular customer, she knew he was gay. I suspect she figured he had sex with a guy. Her problem isn't with adult consensual sex; it is her belief that a marriage is between a woman and man.
She was naïve enough to think the guy would have empathy for the religious beliefs she held. She was wrong, broke the law, and here we are.
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