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Old 04-17-2015, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn New York
15,252 posts, read 23,896,146 times
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not jail time, we have mass murders getting off, i think a trespassing fine should do the trick, along with endangerment....he could have hit someone.
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Old 04-17-2015, 10:18 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,501 posts, read 1,444,172 times
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Default A layered defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
...

The reason he wasn't shot down was basically they knew he was coming. He posted it on his website, his friend (or borther or whatever) called the Secret Service and alerted them to it.. And.. Gee.. Firing a SAM missile at an ultralight over the national mall.. What could POSSIBLY go wrong?
Offhand, is a gyrocopter an ultralight? The US definition seems vague - see Ultralight aviation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As to firing a missile - nah, you uncap a FIM-92A Stinger, sight in on your target, half-detent the trigger to let the seeker get a look @ the target. If you get a tone, you're good to go. You squeeze the trigger all the way, the missile fires. The early versions were impact fuse only. 2.2 lbs. penetrating high explosive @ Mach 1 - there wouldn't have been much left.

@ that point, you bring up the next Stinger & uncap it. Just in case. Your spotter should inform you if there's another target in sight. Failing that, you bring up your Uzi machine pistol & remember your training - lead the target, walk the tracers in. Yah, the Uzi's not an ideal AA weapon - low rate of fire, not much punch to the bullet, & I have no idea of the slant range. Nonetheless, when needs must ...
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Old 04-17-2015, 10:22 AM
 
8,266 posts, read 6,104,315 times
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The whole "he could have had a bomb" argument is pointless.

Yes, he could have had a bomb, and shooting him down could have set that bomb off.. Which could have been directly over the mall and killed/injured many people.

Perhaps we shouldn't allow car sales to old people.. They might mistake the gas and brake and kill people.

Coulda-woulda-shoulda doesn't matter.

Prison is supposed to be to protect the public.. Is anyone particularly worried about him doing it again? I'm not. Is he any kind of danger to the public? Not really.

Outside of the passage of time(It is a different world now), I don't see a whole lot different between what he did and the folks who sat at lunch counters 40 years ago. Peaceful protest by breaking the law. The key part there is, breaking the law. Yes, he absolutely did.. And there are penalties for that.. I think those penalties will likely result in jail time for him, but.. Those are probably too strict.. With federal sentencing guidelines, he will almost certainly do some of that time.

The down side of NOT giving him prison time is that the next person comes along and feels empowered to do the same thing, or worse. If someone is planning on bombing the capitol, the threat of prison time isn't likely to make them change their mind. Making someone else think twice about doing a similar non-violent stunt is the only reason I could support any jail time on this. But we can't be draconian about it.

Quote:
As to firing a missile - nah, you uncap a FIM-92A Stinger, sight in on your target, half-detent the trigger to let the seeker get a look @ the target. If you get a tone, you're good to go. You squeeze the trigger all the way, the missile fires. The early versions were impact fuse only. 2.2 lbs. penetrating high explosive @ Mach 1 - there wouldn't have been much left.

@ that point, you bring up the next Stinger & uncap it. Just in case. Your spotter should inform you if there's another target in sight. Failing that, you bring up your Uzi machine pistol & remember your training - lead the target, walk the tracers in. Yah, the Uzi's not an ideal AA weapon - low rate of fire, not much punch to the bullet, & I have no idea of the slant range. Nonetheless, when needs must ...
Now, don't get me wrong.. At some point, you do have to pull the trigger.. So, I'm not saying that there wasn't a line in the sand where he should have been brought down.. but, since (in theory at least) they knew he was coming and his plans.. That line would be closer to the target than if he just 'showed up'.

Missiles leave debris that will rain down, both from the missile and the target.. Bullets.. we can go back and forth on the likelyhood, but i'm sure you've heard of cases of people being killed by bullets that were fired into the air in celebration. And, you still will have the crashing aircraft. And, since it was flying so low, you have the consideration of bullets that miss going into nearby federal buildings and/or the Smithsonians (Don't know his flight path here, just examples)

There's a fair amount of open area around the Capitol.. So, even if they did plan to shoot him down, it made sense to let him get close. Same with the White House. Shoot him down over the White House grounds rather than over the mall or right over the top of RFK or something like that. That only holds true for this type of aircraft..

Last edited by Labonte18; 04-17-2015 at 10:30 AM..
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Old 04-17-2015, 10:34 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,501 posts, read 1,444,172 times
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Default R2D2 with a vengeance

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamies View Post
...

First for showing the world, once again, that 15 years after 911 the Govt STILL can't protect the capitol from air attack, or any attack for that matter. Phalanx mini-guns should have smoked him long before he landed. So give him the Distinguished Service Medal for that one.

...
The Phalanx is a 20mm autocannon - firing (air defense) solid tungsten armor-piercing rounds @ 4,500 rounds/minute. It's basically a Gatling, with integrated fire control. See Phalanx CIWS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - it's a standard US Navy weapon, & weighs in @ 12,500 to 13,600 lbs. The good thing is, you turn it on & stand clear.

V. effective, but probably a lot of overkill for a gyrocopter. Plus you'd have a lot of rounds impacting somewhere downrange.
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Old 04-17-2015, 10:36 AM
 
1,927 posts, read 1,147,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teckeeee View Post
I think he should get some jail time.

I think DHS needs to be dismantled for the joke that it is, and this proved the police state that was created isn't working at all.

And then I think Congress should invite him to speak and thank them for assisting them in pulling their head's out of their.......
Don't think jail time. He notified the secret service and other "people in charge." Real lack of COMMUNICATION?

He wanted to deliver letters about campaign finance changes. Reminds me of past inventors, that the world laughed at; Edison, Bell, Wright Bros.....just to name a few. Brilliant, to me!! Maybe that is how mail should be delivered in remote places, pizza, medical goods, etc.

The implications that others could use this as a terror plot are feasible. We live in times where evil does exist; we should be aware of the world around us.

Remember the man that lead a flock of geese out by a similar device?

Why not add the nutty, out of date electoral college to his list of campaign finance changes??

Sure brought attention to the real lack of security and for that I do nominate him as a hero and the innovation of the year award.....

Seems like hundreds of years ago; the powers that be, thought the world was flat....... (Was it Galileo that started that rumor/idea?)

Fines, jail time? For what; waking up congress and security? He sure has courage!!! He should be awarded.

Last edited by mollygee; 04-17-2015 at 11:14 AM..
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Old 04-17-2015, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Richmond,VA
2,913 posts, read 1,898,471 times
Reputation: 2105
Quote:
Originally Posted by southwest88 View Post
The gyrocopter pilot is lucky to be alive. There are various rumors about MANPAD missiles @ the White House, likely cut down Stingers. Had he flown directly @ the WH, the Secret Service (?) would have shot him down..
You mean the same Secret Service that allowed a man to make it on foot all the way across the WH lawn and make it into the interior of the WH?
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Old 04-17-2015, 12:06 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,501 posts, read 1,444,172 times
Reputation: 3086
Default Walking softly

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZUMAN View Post
You mean the same Secret Service that allowed a man to make it on foot all the way across the WH lawn and make it into the interior of the WH?
Yah, that's the one. I don't know if SS could tell the runner didn't have a suicide vest or similar on him. My thought is that he never should have been allowed near the WH, & certainly not inside it.

In the case of the autogyro, he could have been packing C-4 or similar, or something worse. Of course you shoot him down - if he heads for the WH. I'm sure the SS up on the WH roof was reviewing their ROE. Much better an explosion outside the WH than within it.
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Old 04-17-2015, 12:10 PM
 
622 posts, read 399,717 times
Reputation: 556
Quote:
Originally Posted by staywarm2 View Post
An MSNBC poll this morning confirmed that 76% of poll responders said the gyrocopter pilot who flew through restricted airspace in Washington, D. C. and landed on the Capitol lawn yesterday should NOT be punished. What do you think?
Punished yes, but not with jail time. A fine or a community service order would be sufficient. After all, by flying into the White House grounds, he has provided evidence that there was a security hole present there.
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Old 04-17-2015, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Baker City, Oregon
3,495 posts, read 5,584,437 times
Reputation: 5431


Matt Davies Editorial Cartoon, April 17, 2015 on GoComics.com

Tom Toles Editorial Cartoon, April 17, 2015 on GoComics.com
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Old 04-17-2015, 01:18 PM
 
1,927 posts, read 1,147,964 times
Reputation: 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollygee View Post
Don't think jail time. He notified the secret service and other "people in charge." Real lack of COMMUNICATION?

Seems like hundreds of years ago; the powers that be, thought the world was flat....... (Was it Galileo that started the rumor/idea that the world was round?)

I thought the postal worker landed near the Capitol building, not the White house.

Fines, jail time? For what; waking up congress and security? He sure has courage!!! He should be awarded.
(correction, to my original post) Guess the weather is making me post, post, we have had snow, rain, hail, and that was just this morning.
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