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Old 04-18-2015, 09:08 PM
 
Location: The World
3,012 posts, read 1,815,190 times
Reputation: 7774

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
Racism implies a negative or hostile attitude. In this case, excluding white students implies they already have college-type role models or an expectation that college is reasonably an option later in life. Though exclusionary, this field trip acknowledges that most of the white children don't need a few hours visiting white community college students they don't know to heighten their self-esteem or hopes for the future.
White students do not always have these role models. Why didn't they load up all the white kids who live in trailer parks and take them to local colleges?

I think this is harmful for a few reasons, frankly.

A) It shows black kids that society sees them as incapable of making the decision to go to college on their own. Let's face it -- that is not the case. Kids of all races are taught about trade schools, community colleges, private universities, public universities, financial aid grants, student loans, etc. etc. Saying that black kids don't know about going to college is quite ridiculous.

In fact, in some cases, poor kids (of all races) can be at an advantage in regards to college. Even if you live on your own, you have to claim your parents' income on a FAFSA until you are 24 years old, whether you live with them or not. Kids whose parents opt not to help them with college (whether out of plain meanness, out of the idea that kids should pay their own way, whatever) but who make middle-class incomes can screw their kids out of an education. Kids who come from poor families are more likely to be able to get this help if they apply for it.

There are also scholarships and grants out there that are specifically designed for black kids.

B) It draws that line between "white kids" and "black kids" and reinforces the fact that people of different races are different. What happened to the equality movement? I was in school in the 90s and early 2000s and don't remember this type of thing. I feel as if society is going backward in regards to race, not forward, which is sad.

C) It's not fair to the white kids. To kids, going on a field trip is a ton of fun, even if it is just to an area college or whatever. If a field trip were planned for white kids only, everyone would be crying that the black kids are being discriminated against. And yes, I can guarantee you that the word "racist" would be used over and over and over again.

I thought black people wanted to be created equally. I know that if I were black, I wouldn't want to be treated as some kind of charity case all the time. I feel the same way about voter IDs. People claim that it's so unfair to black people and that I'm "racist" for thinking that everyone should have an ID to vote. Really? It seems like these are the racist people because they clearly think that black people are so pathetic that they can't even secure a driver's license or state identification card. Give people some credit!
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Old 04-18-2015, 09:10 PM
 
Location: The World
3,012 posts, read 1,815,190 times
Reputation: 7774
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Fallacious argument.

The taxpayer funded public school system isn't there to solve social issues of Blacks. It's there to teach kids how to read, write and do math. But if you don't accept this, then I can make the perfectly valid argument that separate but equal schools are perfectly valid by using your logic.

You can't have it both ways.
I hadn't thought about it this way, but that makes a lot of sense.

And for the record, I am 100% against the idea of "separate but equal."
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Old 04-18-2015, 09:15 PM
 
7,022 posts, read 5,776,902 times
Reputation: 6963
Gee, I'm old enough to remember when everybody—white, black, brown, and other—were allowed to go on field trips together. And nobody thought that was weird or racist.

Keep moving us 'Forward', liberals. Forward back into the past.


Last edited by renault; 04-18-2015 at 09:19 PM.. Reason: The new racism. Same as the old racism.
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Old 04-18-2015, 09:19 PM
 
3,720 posts, read 4,442,521 times
Reputation: 4741
It's very harmful to educate black children and let them know that the environment they currently live in is not the only option. Very harmful and dangerous. That's someone else's job even though many people admit that someone else isn't doing it. This is really funny actually.
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Old 04-18-2015, 09:42 PM
 
Location: The World
3,012 posts, read 1,815,190 times
Reputation: 7774
Quote:
Originally Posted by trishguard View Post
It's very harmful to educate black children and let them know that the environment they currently live in is not the only option. Very harmful and dangerous. That's someone else's job even though many people admit that someone else isn't doing it. This is really funny actually.
Oh, please. All children need to be taught that their current situation (if it is not positive) is not their only option.

Luckily, schools do teach that.

They're taught DARE and are told to leave drugs and alcohol alone.

They're taught sex ed and about proper birth control.

They're taught about standardized testing, applying for college, and paying for college with grants, scholarships and loans.

I'm not sure how much more you think the school is responsible for, for black kids or any kids?

The problem lies when kids make their own poor decisions (common among all races), or their parents use drugs around them, act as if having babies young isn't a bad thing, or telling their kids that college isn't important.

I'm not sure what you think the school system is supposed to do about that, and I'm not sure that separating 3rd graders by race and taking them to a few colleges one time is really going to make that much of a difference, if years of education about these matters in schools, minority scholarships, etc. haven't done the trick.
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Old 04-18-2015, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,620 posts, read 12,796,797 times
Reputation: 11167
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHABAZZ310 View Post
While this decision might have been in bad taste, there seems to have been a conscience effort to address the issues institutionalized white supremacy has caused. You should seek black role models but you can’t exclude other races in a public school environment.
That is the bigger issue to me.

I'm white, and when I was a kid in Seattle, I went to a school called Coleman Elementary, later renamed "The African American Academy." I was one of the only white kids there, with the school being mostly black and Asian. Even before the name and mission statement change, it featured more of an emphasis on African and African American culture than most other schools would, and that was fine, really. They would bring in guest speakers who were members of the black community who were writers, musicians, artists, etc to lead us in class projects and I was never excluded, even though these projects were largely geared towards the black majority of the students. I have no complaints about this as an adult.

Though the school was a mess and I have more complaints about it than good things to say, being included in these events and activities did more to help me appreciate the challenges the black community faces and think positively of it than did anyone ever telling me that I don't get it because I'm white and excluding me from personal experiences understanding the black community.

Regardless of their intentions, the school district made a big mistake with this. I don't understand how an educator could have possibly thought that it would be better to exclude than include students of other races in this field trip, especially one done with public funds, in a public institution.
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Old 04-19-2015, 12:14 AM
 
Location: Sydney, Australia
10,053 posts, read 7,010,750 times
Reputation: 4982
Glad that there are black parents who stood against this.
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Old 04-19-2015, 06:40 AM
 
Location: New York Area
13,435 posts, read 5,224,349 times
Reputation: 10769
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
How can one say with a straight face that organizing an exclusive trip was not intended to be exclusionary?
As well as illegal and disgusting.

It seems they may not want whites to witness political content, radicalization etc.
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Old 04-19-2015, 06:56 AM
 
Location: New York Area
13,435 posts, read 5,224,349 times
Reputation: 10769
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiGi603 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
This is a stupid idea. They are segregating the kids that are not doing as well from the other kids to take them on a special field trip?

If they want ot inspire the black kids to try harder in school why don't they just show them a photo of Obama. Love him or hate him he is a smart guy with drive and he made it all the way to the White House. The sky is the limit with these kids all they need is determination.
Good point.
One of the things that disappoints me most about Obama is that he has not used his bully pulpit much to elevate black childrens' aspirations. He could have been an inspiration and done much to eliminate perpetual underclass activities such as dropping out, teen sex and delinquency. Instead he, and Eric Holder, have mostly stirred the racial pot.
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Old 04-19-2015, 07:42 AM
 
9,107 posts, read 4,531,172 times
Reputation: 3727
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkmax View Post
White students do not always have these role models. Why didn't they load up all the white kids who live in trailer parks and take them to local colleges?

I think this is harmful for a few reasons, frankly.

A) It shows black kids that society sees them as incapable of making the decision to go to college on their own. Let's face it -- that is not the case. Kids of all races are taught about trade schools, community colleges, private universities, public universities, financial aid grants, student loans, etc. etc. Saying that black kids don't know about going to college is quite ridiculous.

In fact, in some cases, poor kids (of all races) can be at an advantage in regards to college. Even if you live on your own, you have to claim your parents' income on a FAFSA until you are 24 years old, whether you live with them or not. Kids whose parents opt not to help them with college (whether out of plain meanness, out of the idea that kids should pay their own way, whatever) but who make middle-class incomes can screw their kids out of an education. Kids who come from poor families are more likely to be able to get this help if they apply for it.

There are also scholarships and grants out there that are specifically designed for black kids.

B) It draws that line between "white kids" and "black kids" and reinforces the fact that people of different races are different. What happened to the equality movement? I was in school in the 90s and early 2000s and don't remember this type of thing. I feel as if society is going backward in regards to race, not forward, which is sad.

C) It's not fair to the white kids. To kids, going on a field trip is a ton of fun, even if it is just to an area college or whatever. If a field trip were planned for white kids only, everyone would be crying that the black kids are being discriminated against. And yes, I can guarantee you that the word "racist" would be used over and over and over again.

I thought black people wanted to be created equally. I know that if I were black, I wouldn't want to be treated as some kind of charity case all the time. I feel the same way about voter IDs. People claim that it's so unfair to black people and that I'm "racist" for thinking that everyone should have an ID to vote. Really? It seems like these are the racist people because they clearly think that black people are so pathetic that they can't even secure a driver's license or state identification card. Give people some credit!
My only quibble was with you saying the difference between discrimination and racism is merely 'semantics.'

This program is discriminatory against the white students and I suppose any other non-black students. However, if it displays 'racist' attitudes, who is the racism directed at ? If anyone, I'd say the black students.

The assumptions are that the 8 year-old black children need this field trip to give them 'what they need to be positive about themselves and about their future, to meet much-needed good examples.' What does that say about the examples in their families, friends, neighborhoods, etc. ? No college students, nobody to meet who's a good example, who can impress them ? Instead, a few hours meeting strangers who are black at a community college will change their self-esteem and hopes for the future. I don't know, that sounds more racist toward the black than the non-black children.
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