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Old 04-21-2015, 02:12 PM
 
27,995 posts, read 19,677,561 times
Reputation: 16471

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZDesertBrat View Post
I wish someone could explain to me just how Walmart treats their employees so badly. Or what is the difference between 'now and then'. Nobody I've asked seems able to come up with any answers or the ones they DO come up with are fallacies/myths/untruths.
Why I believe Walmart and other big box stores to be poor, unethical employers:

-Antiunion
-Fail to give employees their legally due breaks
-Fail to compensate employees for every hour worked
-Wages are disgustingly low given the gigantic amount of profits these corporations rake in
-Hire as many part time workers as possible in order to avoid paying benefits
-Force employees to work off the clock
-Hire undocumented workers to work in their stores
-IMO, they are guilty of predatory pricing

I would rather pay more elsewhere and do a little legwork in order to support businesses that compete fairly and ethically, treat their employees in a fair and ethical manner and contribute to the well being and health of the community in which they do business.
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,798,855 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Yes I am. Please note I said I try to buy local/American as much as possible.

The problem is that the "Made in the USA" claim itself can be pretty flimsy. I live in Phoenix, a few years ago, a solar manufacturing facility was opened up just down the road in Goodyear. The plant would import solar panels from China which were largely completed, finish the wiring, add one final layer to the panels, stamp "Made in the USA" on them, box them up and send them out. This facility got massive tax breaks and other benefits for simply opening their doors. They hired a few employees, pumped out a bunch of panels for a few commercial projects and then shut down their facility in short order while charging a 15-20% premium because the panels were "Made in the USA."


I found the same thing having worked in the supplement industry, with the vast majority of companies ordering their basic raws from China, throwing them in a bottle and stamping "Made in the USA" on the bottle. Very few companies do their own manufacturing and the ones that do can often struggle because of the much higher pricepoint that they have to charge, yet if you don't know the whole story, all you see is two labels that both state "Made in the USA" and one has a 20-25% premium for some reason, so which is the average consumer going to choose, even if they mean well and are trying to "buy American."




The overall regulation of "Made in USA" is laughably inadequate. If you're a corporation, the temptation to do most of the manufacturing in China, tweak some things in the U.S., add a "Made in the USA" to the label and charge a premium must be tremendous.
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:13 PM
 
27,995 posts, read 19,677,561 times
Reputation: 16471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumf View Post
There once was a time, not that long ago - where 'Buy American' meant something...
We are too blind to see the road ahead, when the well paved, freshly laid pavement in front of us, calls us to not see where that road leads. As someone else mentioned, we're feeding the creature that will devour us.
Well put.

Another example of our society's race to the bottom.
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,798,855 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Why I believe Walmart and other big box stores to be poor, unethical employers:

-Antiunion
-Fail to give employees their legally due breaks
-Fail to compensate employees for every hour worked
-Wages are disgustingly low given the gigantic amount of profits these corporations rake in
-Hire as many part time workers as possible in order to avoid paying benefits

-Force employees to work off the clock
-Hire undocumented workers to work in their stores
-IMO, they are guilty of predatory pricing

I would rather pay more elsewhere and do a little legwork in order to support businesses that compete fairly and ethically, treat their employees in a fair and ethical manner and contribute to the well being and health of the community in which they do business.



What if I told you the unionized grocery stores pay even less than Walmart. Kroger, Safeway, Albertsons....etc, they all start their employees out at lower wages. My friend is a produce manager at Safeway, he can't keep employees because the starting wage is under $8 an hour and the the rate of raises is governed by a union contract. The people he does get are often difficult to deal, disinterested in putting in any actual work, you really do get what you pay for but to pretend that this is a Walmart issue and not a grocery and retail industry issue would be missing the forest through the trees. All these companies are paying substandard wages and the unionized stores are often the worst.

Also there are more employees than ever working less than 30 hours.......coincidentally I'm sure.
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:18 PM
 
27,995 posts, read 19,677,561 times
Reputation: 16471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
The problem is that the "Made in the USA" claim itself can be pretty flimsy. I live in Phoenix, a few years ago, a solar manufacturing facility was opened up just down the road in Goodyear. The plant would import solar panels from China which were largely completed, finish the wiring, add one final layer to the panels, stamp "Made in the USA" on them, box them up and send them out. This facility got massive tax breaks and other benefits for simply opening their doors. They hired a few employees, pumped out a bunch of panels for a few commercial projects and then shut down their facility in short order while charging a 15-20% premium because the panels were "Made in the USA."


I found the same thing having worked in the supplement industry, with the vast majority of companies ordering their basic raws from China, throwing them in a bottle and stamping "Made in the USA" on the bottle. Very few companies do their own manufacturing and the ones that do can often struggle because of the much higher pricepoint that they have to charge, yet if you don't know the whole story, all you see is two labels that both state "Made in the USA" and one has a 20-25% for some reason, so which is the average consumer going to choose, even if they mean well and are trying to "buy American."




The overall regulation of "Made in USA" is laughably inadequate. If you're a corporation, the temptation to do most of the manufacturing in China, tweak some things in the U.S., add a "Made in the USA" to the label and charge a premium must be tremendous.
It depends on who you buy from. I buy from artists and craftspeople as much as possible. Also, the toy store I mentioned before is owned by a woman and her daughter who live not far from me. But it is they who are profiting, not some no-face big box corporation.
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:20 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
72,873 posts, read 64,340,187 times
Reputation: 68757
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
All it takes is a look at Walmart to understand why raising taxes on American companies is bad.

The majority of people purchase based upon price.

When it costs American companies more to produce goods, the price to the consumer increases. When the price increases, most consumers will grab the cheaper product produced in China or other countries cheap product sitting right next to it for a few cents less.

We live in a global market where price sells in most instances.
Not really. In my town, the only people who shop at Wal Mart are illegal aliens and farmers living on a subsistence economy (Hispanics, some Native people), and possibly the unemployed.

People go for quality, rather than low price. It only takes a few mistakes to realize that buying cheap goods is a waste of money. And some people prefer to support their local store owner, the one who's been in the neighborhood for years, and who gave their kids or their neighbor's kids after-school jobs.

And btw, the issue often isn't about raising taxes on US companies. It's about getting US companies to pay any taxes at all. Some of the biggest companies (Bank of Am., GE, to name just two) don't pay any at all.
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,798,855 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
It depends on who you buy from. I buy from artists and craftspeople as much as possible. Also, the toy store I mentioned before is owned by a woman and her daughter who live not far from me. But it is they who are profiting, not some no-face big box corporation.


I don't know what your individual situation is, but for the average person, that's not a feasible reality.


Your craftspeople and artists aren't going to sell me a new television, a power drill, a lawnmower, a computer, smartphone...etc. You're basically talking about applying a flimsy bandage to a gushing, bleeding wound. For the vast majority of people, its pretty much impossible to get around buying stuff from China, India, the Philippines...etc......whether they realize that is the ultimate point of origin or not.


People surely can shop at a local bakery, they can go to farmer's markets, they can use locally based services but when it comes to purchasing actual goods, you're very limited in your options, its just the reality of the world, we're a global economy and in the U.S. we're steadily moving from a manufacturing base to a retail and service base.
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,798,855 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post

People go for quality, rather than low price.
Regarding this difference in "quality", if I buy Tide detergent from Wal-Mart, am I getting a lesser quality product than if I buy Tide detergent from Target, Kroger, a local store...etc. Much of the stuff inside Walmart is what you find in other stores so I've never understood the "quality" argument.
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:29 PM
 
27,995 posts, read 19,677,561 times
Reputation: 16471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
I don't know what your individual situation is, but for the average person, that's not a feasible reality.


Your craftspeople and artists aren't going to sell me a new television, a power drill, a lawnmower, a computer, smartphone...etc. You're basically talking about applying a flimsy bandage to a gushing, bleeding wound. For the vast majority of people, its pretty much impossible to get around buying stuff from China, India, the Philippines...etc......whether they realize that is the ultimate point of origin or not.


People surely can shop at a local bakery, they can go to farmer's markets, they can use locally based services but when it comes to purchasing actual goods, you're very limited in your options, its just the reality of the world, we're a global economy and in the U.S. we're steadily moving from a manufacturing base to a retail and service base.
I can buy electronics, appliances, etc at local stores here. Glad I live where I do. Please note that I never said I had an issue with buying products from other countries.
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Old 04-21-2015, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Not where you ever lived
11,544 posts, read 25,107,591 times
Reputation: 6189
People do what they must to survive. Inexpensive food is the #1 priority in most families. There is nothing cheap about $7.00 per pound hamburger at Walmart.

Meat markets and Aldi's stores are two places that sell 85/15 ground beef for two dollars less. It is where I buy mine. Walmart does not compete in the area of paper products. Dollar General, Dollar Tree, Sam's Club and Costco sell toilet paper and paper towels cheaper.
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