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Old 04-23-2015, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,088 posts, read 7,363,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderwall View Post
Felix C, that was the movie "The Day After Tomorrow". I'll never forget how hard the audience laughed during that scene, and the applause at the perfect irony the filmmakers displayed.
Yes that one.
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Old 04-23-2015, 08:59 AM
 
14,253 posts, read 14,805,548 times
Reputation: 13621
This is the scale of the problem .....

"Up to 600,000 people are estimated to be waiting in Libya for an opportunity to make the treacherous sea crossing."

"Rome says more than 50,000 migrants have landed in Italy by sea so far this year."

Migrants crossing the Mediterranean: key numbers | News | The Guardian

And it isn't just Italy. Spain and Greece have the same issue.
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Old 04-23-2015, 09:24 AM
 
28,411 posts, read 14,279,413 times
Reputation: 19546
As I see it, governments have two options if they want to see tragedies like this reduced.

1. Open their borders and only allow licensed transit.
2. Fully enforce immigration laws and deport the illegals to send a message that you won't be allowed to stay, so making dangerous crossings is futile and a waste of time. This whole "if you can make it, you stay" mentality is a major problem.
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Old 04-23-2015, 09:36 AM
 
24,115 posts, read 17,727,351 times
Reputation: 12911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
This is the scale of the problem .....

"Up to 600,000 people are estimated to be waiting in Libya for an opportunity to make the treacherous sea crossing."

"Rome says more than 50,000 migrants have landed in Italy by sea so far this year."

Migrants crossing the Mediterranean: key numbers | News | The Guardian

And it isn't just Italy. Spain and Greece have the same issue.
yeah, we're talking some huge numbers here. and those don't count all the ones en route to Libya as we speak.
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Old 04-23-2015, 10:17 AM
 
33 posts, read 60,754 times
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Why is it that it's always Europe and the US to come to the aid of those people? Why can't they go to other African countries? I have no sympathy for them. They are coming from overpopulated, backwards hellholes and want to bring their "culture" along with them. If you are in a crappy situation then you should not be having children to begin with. I have watched enough documentaries on these asylum seekers in the UK and have seen it first hand myself on how these people have "enriched" London with their noise, filth and disgusting habits . None of them have less than 5 kids. They live on the taxpayer dime, breeding over and over, expecting handouts and have the nerve to complain about the houses they are in or the amount of money they get.

They need to cut all social services for those people. No food, no housing, no health care. Harsher penalties for those who hire them. Let them make a raft and sail back to Africa.

On my most recent trip to Europe, I was completely disgusted with the number of immigrants literally stinking up the cities. Europeans need to fight and take their countries back. The bleeding heart liberals should be sent the food bill and provide the accommodation for the illegal migrants if they love them so much.
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Old 04-23-2015, 10:21 AM
 
Location: NYC
11,852 posts, read 7,787,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabber_wocky View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/21/wo...izes.html?_r=0

This is very sad news indeed. I made this thread to see what others felt about this matter.
Take a plane?
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Old 04-23-2015, 10:33 AM
 
7,053 posts, read 6,691,696 times
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The title of the article makes it sound as if Europe is the victim here. The reality is that the Europeans were heavily involved in the regime change in Libya which led to this crisis. In order to make it appear that the rebellion was local in origin, they recruited and trained militias for the ground war. As the following story illustrates, the ground war was actually being led by British special forces.

Inside story of the UK's secret mission to beat Gaddafi - BBC News

Europe and America should bear the blame for the conditions there.
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Old 04-23-2015, 10:51 AM
 
14,253 posts, read 14,805,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
The title of the article makes it sound as if Europe is the victim here. The reality is that the Europeans were heavily involved in the regime change in Libya which led to this crisis. In order to make it appear that the rebellion was local in origin, they recruited and trained militias for the ground war. As the following story illustrates, the ground war was actually being led by British special forces.

Inside story of the UK's secret mission to beat Gaddafi - BBC News

Europe and America should bear the blame for the conditions there.
The removal of Gaddafi has opened up Libya as an embarkation point. But most of the migrants are not from Libya but from other countries. And it isn't just migrants coming from Libya to Italy that is a problem. There has been a steady flow crossing into both Spain and Greece and there have been many killed in trying to do this.

The issue is that there are millions of Africans who are attempting to flee poverty by illegally migrating into Europe just as there are plenty of South and Central Americans trying to do the same thing by illegally migrating into the USA. And there is a human cost to this whether it be people drowning or people dying in the desert after being abandoned by the traffickers.

Opening up the borders simply isn't a viable solution. While western economies do need some immigration, they don't need uncontrolled immigration. But the extent of third world poverty means that the risk is worthwhile to enough people. So the question is how you make the destination sufficiently unattractive that migrants will not take the risk any more.
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:06 AM
Status: "Christine Blasi Ford, Novelist and fiction author" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
13,542 posts, read 5,298,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theropod View Post
How come they all sank in a one-week span?

This sounds a bit nefarious to me.
It's called spring. Is the equinox nefarious?
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:24 AM
Status: "Christine Blasi Ford, Novelist and fiction author" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
13,542 posts, read 5,298,731 times
Reputation: 10837
Quote:
Originally Posted by albanyreject View Post
Why is it that it's always Europe and the US to come to the aid of those people? Why can't they go to other African countries?
Thanks for an honest post that gets beyond political correctness. Kenya, among others, has been taking lots of such people from Somalia and unfortunately may be paying for their kindness. See for example the recent university shooting. In general you're right though. They should not be coming to places into which they cannot hope to fit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by albanyreject View Post
I have no sympathy for them. They are coming from overpopulated, backwards hellholes and want to bring their "culture" along with them. If you are in a crappy situation then you should not be having children to begin with.
I have made this point over and over. The problem is that both people in the Fourth World and in our urban ghettos have no other form of recreation than sex. And the male may not have much if anything to do with the offspring. If we could get beyond political correctness we'd be sterilizing these people as a condition of aid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by albanyreject View Post
I have watched enough documentaries on these asylum seekers in the UK and have seen it first hand myself on how these people have "enriched" London with their noise, filth and disgusting habits . None of them have less than 5 kids. They live on the taxpayer dime, breeding over and over, expecting handouts and have the nerve to complain about the houses they are in or the amount of money they get. They need to cut all social services for those people. No food, no housing, no health care.
See above. If we stop the subsidizing maybe the only ones that do come will be those that are willing workers. There are immigrants that can work any of us under the table. We need those people. By and large the U.S. has gotten ahead by virtue of its relative lack of subsidies. We attract people that want to work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by albanyreject View Post
Harsher penalties for those who hire them. Let them make a raft and sail back to Africa.
Here we don't entirely agree. See above. I think that all societies are helped by those that come to work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by albanyreject View Post
On my most recent trip to Europe, I was completely disgusted with the number of immigrants literally stinking up the cities. Europeans need to fight and take their countries back. The bleeding heart liberals should be sent the food bill and provide the accommodation for the illegal migrants if they love them so much.
Europe has a history of doing that. Be careful of what you wish for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
The issue is that there are millions of Africans who are attempting to flee poverty by illegally migrating into Europe just as there are plenty of South and Central Americans trying to do the same thing by illegally migrating into the USA. And there is a human cost to this whether it be people drowning or people dying in the desert after being abandoned by the traffickers.

Opening up the borders simply isn't a viable solution. While western economies do need some immigration, they don't need uncontrolled immigration. But the extent of third world poverty means that the risk is worthwhile to enough people. So the question is how you make the destination sufficiently unattractive that migrants will not take the risk any more.
The politically incorrect answer is that we need to limit the West's propensity to offer a cradle to grave welfare state. That way workers come, shirkers don't.

Last edited by jbgusa; 04-23-2015 at 11:28 AM.. Reason: Combine similar responses.
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